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Should there be more armed Security Officers?

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  • #16
    I keep noticing that people think it "should be up to them" if they want to carry on a post. The hard reality is that unless the client wants a gun, you aren't carrying one.

    Most states require that the company have a written agreement with the client saying "you can carry," and some go as far as to require the client to specify why they want a gun, what reason is required for a gun on site.

    As in, "I wish armed security because..."

    If your company doesn't want you to have a gun, you aren't carrying one, period.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #17
      Originally posted by FireEMSPolice
      In light of the awful shootings at Virginia Tech, should more public places (schools, malls, etc) have armed Security Officers? Nothing against them being unarmed but with recent shootings, having that means of defense is not a bad idea.
      I think it would helpbut, as N.A pointed out, It is up to the client to say if we are armed. We also don't want anyone who is gonna go postal so we would need stricter regulations.
      Todd

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      • #18
        Here is what you may be up against even if everyone agrees. CNN carried a story that the school police in Boston are assaulted on an average of 12 times a day. These guys have police powers and a pair of handcuffs and a container of OC period. All they are asking for is to be allowed to wear stab proof vest. The powers to be say absolutely not as it would send the wrong message to the students. Just think what these learned citizens would say if you asked to wear a gun? They would have a stroke.
        THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
        THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
        http://www.boondocksaints.com/

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Chucky
          Just think what these learned citizens would say if you asked to wear a gun? They would have a stroke.
          Maybe two strokes.

          The "gun control" blather that's coming off the media following V-Tech is simply amazing. Here's what they conveniently ignore:

          1. Gun sales jumped by almost double in many places after 9/11, with many in the media moaning about it, forecasting billions and billions of shootings. What has happened to gun crime since then? I bet you can tell me, and so could the media...but they won't.

          2. In 2006, Virginia's legislature rejected a bill that would have permitted guns in the hands of law-abiding people on campus. In other words, V-Tech and other university campuses in Virginia represent areas where there is the strictest form of gun control possible...NO GUNS, period! So...how's that gun control workin out for ya so far, Virginia? Have you finally figured out that the only people you keep from having guns with "gun control laws" are the very people who could and probably SHOULD have them?

          3. So, they make the argument that guns are easy to get in Virginia. They're saying that Virginia has the "easiest" laws for obtaining a gun and that's why all this happened. Well, I've listened to the description of what the perp had to do to get a gun and it looks just like what he would have done in many states, including mine. "No waiting period!" they moan. Does anyone think this guy wouldn't have been perfectly willing to wait a few days to get his guns? Jaysus, Paddy! Wake up and smell the coffee.

          Here's the bottom line. A nutburger who didn't care about "the gun laws" anyway shot up the campus and there was no one in the area who DID have the right to carry a gun who could have intervened. THAT'S the result of "gun control".

          4. Nuts without guns have found plenty of ways to commit mayhem if that's what they want to do, such as driving their cars at high speed into crowds of people. How many guns did the Unabomber use? Answer: NONE.

          Gimme a break, liberal media, and pull up your pants. Your crack is showing, and it's butt-ugly.

          "An armed society is a polite society." - Mark Twain
          Last edited by SecTrainer; 04-18-2007, 03:46 PM.
          "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

          "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

          "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

          "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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          • #20
            I must say that background checks do have their place in the permit food chain.
            The 2nd amendment says we have the right to have and bear arms but they neglected to say how much it will cost to exercise our right. In my case it took 8 weeks and $300.00 in fees just to get a class A high capacity no restrictions licence. It entailed taking an NRA pistol safety course to see if I can hit a target 40 ft away. The fact that I was in combat and have 40 hrs of gun training meant nothing I guess. Then I had to get the blessing of the local Chief. then the 4 pages of life history gets kicked up to the State Police then to the FBI.

            Now to buy a gun is 2 more pages of crapola to fill out then I have to put my thumb in a little gizmo that checks out my print with the FBI again. This will happen every time I buy a gun. Now that will help keep folks with funny farm history from getting a gun LEGALLY. So now I am legal to carry concealed or holstered at work. But wait a min my wife just left me for a younger man and took my dog with her in my new pick up truck. The stress is causing me to have flash backs. I getting depressed.

            Then it comes to me I have several guns and will get revenge Pow Pow.
            The next day the papers report he was such a nice guy but he never should have been allowed to have guns. If only someone did something!!

            My point is did what and why? Who knew? People snap. I personally don't see any concrete answer on the horizon to prevent these things from happening.
            THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
            THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
            http://www.boondocksaints.com/

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            • #21
              ...NO GUNS, period! So...how's that gun control workin out for ya so far, Virginia?

              Yeah, I am from Virginia. I am certified as an armed officer with arrest authority. I can also say that there are laws in all states that do not allow a person, whether with or without a concealed carry permit, to carry a weapon on any school property. After the events at Colimbine these laws were passed to regulate the NO GUNS on SCHOOL PROPERTY. It is pretty universal. So please look around at the rest of the schools before you start pointing your fingers at one of the most conservative states as far as gun controls go.
              Keeping the parking lots safe, hallways moving and the Chik Fil A busy.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by HotelSecurity
                What I find strange is that in my 30+ years of working unarmed security the only security people I have ever heard of getting shot in my area were armed security guards working for armoured car companies or banks.
                That may be true, but the crime rate in Canada is still higher than the U.S.

                http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...4/150547.shtml

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by SEO_09
                  I can also say that there are laws in all states that do not allow a person, whether with or without a concealed carry permit, to carry a weapon on any school property.

                  Washington State:

                  RCW 9.41.280
                  Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities -- Exceptions.
                  (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools.

                  (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

                  (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student.


                  The only thing that saves my son from being walked to school by a neighbor...Our neighborhood is going downhill FAST, what with a shared room-for-rent place down the street being completely taken over by 6-8 "thug lifestyle" types...We already had our first shooting here in the 'hood, they've lived here less than a month. Nice neighbors.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by wilrobnson

                    Washington State:

                    RCW 9.41.280
                    Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities -- Exceptions.
                    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools.

                    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

                    (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student.


                    The only thing that saves my son from being walked to school by a neighbor...Our neighborhood is going downhill FAST, what with a shared room-for-rent place down the street being completely taken over by 6-8 "thug lifestyle" types...We already had our first shooting here in the 'hood, they've lived here less than a month. Nice neighbors.
                    Another exception is if you are school security. There are two districts in Western Washington that have armed security employed by the district (i.e. not SRO).

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by SEO_09
                      ...NO GUNS, period! So...how's that gun control workin out for ya so far, Virginia?

                      Yeah, I am from Virginia. I am certified as an armed officer with arrest authority. I can also say that there are laws in all states that do not allow a person, whether with or without a concealed carry permit, to carry a weapon on any school property. After the events at Colimbine these laws were passed to regulate the NO GUNS on SCHOOL PROPERTY. It is pretty universal. So please look around at the rest of the schools before you start pointing your fingers at one of the most conservative states as far as gun controls go.
                      Yes, you're right, and I probably did not phrase my point properly. The point I was making is that this event occurred in an area where the gun control is the strictest (no guns, period), demonstrating that the only people who the laws ever regulate (whether they're speed laws or gun laws) are law-abiding people. This means that "gun control" does nothing more than take guns out of the hands of law-abiding people, and time after time studies have shown that we want guns in their hands because they use them thousands of times a year to prevent crime...but the liberal media doesn't talk about that.

                      My apologies for misstating my case.
                      "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                      "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                      "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                      "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                        Ok, ok... First, you do not enforce the law with a firearm.
                        I agree completely just as guns do not kill people - people kill people and as such, having a firearm does not automatically mean someone is going to get killed.

                        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                        You protect yourself and other people with a firearm. Police officers are armed because they 'frequently encounter lethal force situations.' I put that in quotes because many, many, armed professionals simply don't do this, but statistically, the industry does.
                        While true, I nevertheless believe that when working in high crime areas and those with floods of gang activity, it is prudent for the security officer to be armed.

                        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                        Two of the biggest hurdles to "strapping a gun on" an armed officer are liability and public perception.
                        In terms of liability - maybe if [proper] training opportunities were actually made available to security officers there would be less liability issues. In terms of public perception. I personally have never run into a situation where I have been faced with public perception concerns over my or any of my co-workers carrying a firearm. This is not to say that there should not be public concern because I believe there should be a heck of a lot of it and would be if they knew just how little training is required many times.

                        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                        I have not done the analysis of the Virginia Tech incidents, I understand there were two shooters and two separate incidents within two hours of each other (WTF?!), so I have no idea if an armed security presence would of denied or destroyed the threat.
                        The Governor of Missouri, Matt Blunt, announced today that he is assigning a committee to examine and make recommendtions about all aspects of security, in public places, throughout the state. More changes are on the way no doubt.



                        Between these two issues, it is easier to have police officers be armed. After all, the police are covered under qualified immunity. The police go everywhere, so people don't make the connection between "armed police" and "they have armed police providing security."

                        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                        The only difference is that the armed officer generates more liability for the company, is able to respond to lethal threats to their life, and usually is able to respond to non-lethal threats because they carry other equipment between "hi" and *BANG*
                        Let us not forget that those of us who are armed also generate more financial revenue for the employer, as well, because we are armed. And with this, security officers are also paid higher wages - though I do not believe high enough wages.

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                        • #27
                          Here is what my state has to say as to where you may not carry. I would guess it is the same for most states. Due to HIPAA rules and the fact that my employer may be unhappy about me posting in a forum I try to keep my post generic as to state and locations.

                          "Some of the more common places include state and federal courthouses, post offices, schools and school grounds, prisons and jails, and virtually all other federal buildings and some state buildings where metal detectors are in use. In many of these places, other than schools and school grounds, if you declare your firearm at the door, you can usually check your firearm, and pick it up on the way out. Do not bring a gun onto school grounds. School grounds include parking lots, driveways, and the grounds outside the building."
                          THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
                          THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
                          http://www.boondocksaints.com/

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Since my superiors already know who I am, I can comment about things without fear of them finding out..ha

                            I graduated from Virginia Tech several years ago. I knew many people that attended the school and people who still live in the area. I have since moved away, but keep in contact.

                            I got a phone call from a guy who I used to work with and he left me a message calling that he wanted to talk because he is "falling apart". He is a Town Police officer and said the scene was a mess. It will take a while to recover from this.

                            I still go to Blacksburg during the football season to watch games and next year things will be different.

                            Life will go on, but it will be hard, just keep those students and families in your thoughts and prayers.

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                            • #29
                              Here is a petition on the popular group "facebook" that is circulating around the VT section of "facebook".


                              This is an early draft of a petition I will be circulating in the near future on campus. Let me know what you think, invite your friends.


                              In light of recent events, it has become clear that a no-gun policy is not feasible to enforce in an all-encompassing and timely manner for an institution as large as a public university, and only serves to ensure that those intent on committing acts of violence meet no armed resistance from the responsible and law-abiding citizens they intend to victimize.

                              Therefore, in order to promote a safe learning environment while recognizing the inadequacy of the present rules and regulations regarding firearms, we the undersigned, as students of Radford University, do hereby petition the Student Government and Administration of Radford University to repeal the ban on firearms for those citizens age 21 and older who possess proper permits and licensure to carry said firearms in a concealed manner while on campus.

                              While we have full faith that the various government agencies and police departments responsible for southwest Virginia are capable and competent, we also recognize that their jurisdictions are too large and their manpower too limited to ensure adequate protection twenty-four hours a day, and that to promote such a police state and the associated erosion of civil liberties would be unacceptable regardless.

                              We recognize that the right to self-defense is an inherent one, and we accept the responsibility to defend ourselves and to defend those around us. We recognize that the right to bear arms is one guaranteed to all citizens by the Constitution of the United States of America, and that to deny us this right is the same as denying us the right of assembly, speech, or press.
                              Radford is a college campus 30 minutes away from VT

                              On a side note, anyone use "facebook"? I think that it is a good network and many people from my work utilize it daily instead of myspace or other networks.
                              Last edited by LPCap; 04-19-2007, 12:18 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Excerpt from petition
                                In light of recent events, it has become clear that a no-gun policy is not feasible to enforce in an all-encompassing and timely manner for an institution as large as a public university, and only serves to ensure that those intent on committing acts of violence meet no armed resistance from the responsible and law-abiding citizens they intend to victimize.
                                I think this pretty well says it all - something everyone; everywhere should be listening to.

                                We have reached a point in our national history that we have cause to fear our fellow citizen far more than some potential terrrorist. Because while the potential terrotist lurkes in the cloak of darkness to spring his trap and is discovered beforehand. American citizens easily walk in broad daylight to inflict their devastation; undetected until it is too late.

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