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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Most people consider the USA to BE an armed society. Where is the politeness?
    We're not an armed society, an armed society is one where every one owns a gun and carries it. Of all of my friends probably only 10 of them actually own a firearm and I live in WI which is a big hunting state (not saying I have hundreds of friends, just saying the lot of them don't own a gun). Its all the negative media that the US puts out that makes it seem we are an armed ruthless society. When I was overseas I learned that owning an AK was a status symbol and a must for being the head of a household. Now that was an armed society. I'm not going to get in a concealed carry or a second amendment debate but look at the shooting in the Salt Lake City mall and how the armed off duty police officer was able to slow down the shooter, he probably saved a lot of lives that day.

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    • #17
      Too soon to speculate on a whole lot, but some things are obvious:

      1. It is not gun control we need in this country, it's WHACKO control. From the information I have read, it is obvious this guy has(had) been a loose link for some time, but no one wanted to take him seriously, or was afraid to speak out. Someone who is obviously a ticking time bomb needs to be dealt with before he or she becomes a real problem.

      2. Related to Item #1, it is high time this complacent country of ours' needs to GET THEIR HEAD OUT OF THEIR ASS!!!! Times have changed drastically, and don't show any indication of improving. University police or security nationwide need to be better trained and equipped. Teachers and professors need to be trained to watch for danger signs, and report them when they see them. Same goes for high schools(ala Columbine). Counsellors need to be available for those with emotional problems.

      3. Going to college can be an exciting, yet frightening time in anyone's life. The pressures a lot of students experience can be too much for some, or a lot are disappointed when they don't achieve the expectations they set out for. A lot of browbeating teachers/professors need to learn that while a lot of students can be driven to apply themselves better by such treatment, others will take it wrong, and will retaliate with drastic results.


      This is getting to be like that story of the 6 blindfolded men who were taken to an elephant, and asked to assess what an elephant was like. Each man had a different perspective, all for the one common beast.

      This will really make a lot of folks do a lot of thinking from now on. I can only hope we learn from our mistakes and negligence, and such tragedy can be avoided in the future.
      Never make a drummer mad; we beat things for a living!

      Comment


      • #18
        525 I agree with what you are saying. Although a professor did complain to the local police about this guy and also had him removed from her class as he was scaring other students with his weirdness. Herein lye's the problem the cops could not do a thing as it is not against the law to be weird. Until he commits a crime he can talk to the farm animals all day if he likes.

        The only other alternative is if a family member can convince law enforcement that he is a danger to himself or others in our state he can be sectioned 12 for 72 hours against his will in a counseling home for evaluation.
        THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
        THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
        http://www.boondocksaints.com/

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Chucky
          525 I agree with what you are saying. Although a professor did complain to the local police about this guy and also had him removed from her class as he was scaring other students with his weirdness. Herein lye's the problem the cops could not do a thing as it is not against the law to be weird. Until he commits a crime he can talk to the farm animals all day if he likes.

          The only other alternative is if a family member can convince law enforcement that he is a danger to himself or others in our state he can be sectioned 12 for 72 hours against his will in a counseling home for evaluation.
          I, for one, always go by the old saying "watch the quiet ones". We as a society, are always blindfolded by the notion that "it can't and/or won't happen here". I, also go by the six P's, which are Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. My own opinion, is that the news media is this countries biggest ememy in times like these. First thing, I heard within two minutes of watching the news was, how this is the worst shooting in our countries history. Then they go back to other school shootings "comparing numbers". So, now we are most likely to have a copy cat try to beat the "record". Of course, you don't hear "that much" talk about the professor that was saying "hey, something is up with this dude". All we hear is "why and/or how could this happen, what can we do to prevent it". It's the President of the school's fault, it's the police departments fault, blah blah blah. Let's get down and just say that it's the fault of those that ignored this professors (and most likely alot of others) cries for attention and help. Nope, let's transfer him and problem is solved. Yup, it's solved alright, with 32 now dead.
          "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

          Comment


          • #20
            DMS 525: Excellent.

            It is days like this you just want to bury your head in the sand.

            I normally listen to the talk shows in the morning on Boston radio while
            at the Gate House.

            Today after about 3 hours of non-stop chatter from liberal to
            conservative talk show hosts tossing out their views, I had enough

            I switched over to the classical music station in Boston to calm my nerves.
            http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/ Greatest Comedy team ever!

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            • #21
              I guess the shooter mailed some stuff to the media.

              http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?se...cal&id=5222520
              Todd

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              • #22
                I fear that through a lot of 'help' of the media guns will be come the enemy here. Some people just don't realize that guns don't kill people, people kill people.

                I fear we as a society will forget this event and allow ourselves to once agan be complacent and allow the media to steer our opinions and ideas.

                Did anyone hear of the professor that survived the holacaust (sp?) and ended up giving his life to save his students? I heard on the Lars Larson Show from a guest-Dennis Miller, that this prof survived evil once in his life. He knew the face of evil and all these years later recognized it again and had a millisecond to make a decision and react. His reaction was to protect his students from this evil and physically held the doors closed prevented the shooter from entering the classroom. He did so until the bullets that came through the door ended his life.

                I strongly feel that students allowed to carry could've made a positive difference in this outcome. Read, or listen and maybe you will as well...Transcript Of Interview with VTech Student Bradford Wiles
                ~Super Ninja Sniper~
                Corbier's Commandos

                Nemo me impune lacessit

                Grammical and Spelling errors may occur form time to time. Yoov bin worned

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ValleyOne
                  I fear that through a lot of 'help' of the media guns will be come the enemy here. Some people just don't realize that guns don't kill people, people kill people.
                  I think that there will undoubtedly be efforts to pass "new gun laws" that seemingly strengthen the strongholds against citizens having the right to bear arms.

                  Originally posted by ValleyOne
                  I fear we as a society will forget this event and allow ourselves to once agan be complacent and allow the media to steer our opinions and ideas.
                  Of course society will - it is, after all the American way. As long as we are not directly involved or personally effected - its' ok to forget and be complacent. That's been our motto from eon's ago and its' why our society continues to get more and more violent and out of control.

                  Originally posted by ValleyOne
                  I strongly feel that students allowed to carry could've made a positive difference in this outcome.
                  I disagree. This is too high risk for something to go wrong, even accidently

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    What if?

                    An armed society is a polite society. - Mark Twain

                    Terriable tragedy? Yes. Preventable? Probally not. Could the killing been minimized? Yes. Just think what could have happened if one pearson with a weapon, the right training and correct mind set could have prevented.

                    Col. Dave Grossman has written several books and tours the country giving lectures. Some of his books are "On Combat" and "On Killing". If you ever get the chance to see him speak it is a real eye opener. He even has DVD's out. I think it's called "The Bulletproof Mind".
                    "Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you.

                    He is training with minimum food or water, in austere
                    conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do---his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn't care "how hard it is"; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the Cause."

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                    • #25
                      In my opinion, the coward probably took into consideration the fact that

                      a location such a college campus is most likely not very well defended. Would

                      something like this have happened at a Police Station or a Military Base? I

                      would think not. Studies tell us that criminals like this prefer prey that

                      appears weak or defenseless.
                      "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
                      - Thomas Jefferson

                      “Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.”
                      — Vince Lombardi

                      "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

                      IX. Strive to attain professional competence.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Yep, he set them up good and proper.

                        He called in a couple bomb threats. I think this was to test response times and such. He shot 2 people and left, mailed off his manefesto, and returned to a location across the campus, chained atleast 1 doorway to prevent victims from escaping and to delay the police, did his killing, and killed himself as the police closed in.

                        The guy was crazy, but he wasn't dumb.

                        What happened at Vt is of course my worst personal nightmare, a shooting on Campus. I feel very sorry for the victims, but I also feel very sorry for Virginia Tech PD. Decade after Decade after Decade VTPD has protected the University with little in the way of major incidents. yet no one will remember that, what they will remember is the 1 mad rampage of a well armed mentally ill nerd.........
                        ~Black Caesar~
                        Corbier's Commandos

                        " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

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                        • #27
                          Oh, man. So, this guy actually had and executed a tactical plan. This is some bad mojo, and will hopefully make police departments (the ones who respond) and security forces (the ones already on station) realize that the average nut-job is tactically sophisticated and becoming more so all the time.

                          While I do not blame "violent video games" or any other video games for the VT incident, and Jack Thompson can shut the hell up, there is no denying that some games have taught youth how to move and react as a team and given them information on tactical operations.

                          Once they get interested, they run to Google and find more information out. Army Field Manuals available online. The SWAT series, especially the first one (which wasn't that much fun), was very "realistic" in tactical signs and movements. The objective, of course, was a realistic SWAT simulator.

                          How many of you play paintball in either outdoors or indoor areas, and how many of your team-mates or enemies are tactically trained? And how well do they do against the internet kids who are still hardcore.
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                          • #28
                            VTPD is also spread VERY thin. Look at their Organization Chart. Now, I don't know how they work (8s, 10s, 12s, rotating shifts, swing shifts, whatever), but if they work like most Campus PDs I know of (no telling), then A shift might be days, with D shift bing a kind of middle shift. Or D shift could be the weekend crew, who knows.

                            Anyways, I know if the day time they have the chief, and detective or 1, maybe a reserve or 2, and a number of unarmed security...... but only 5 or 6 police officers per shift? I was amazed. If you count staff, VT has a steady population of 30,000, with over 2600 acres and 100 buildings. That's a monster campus, and the handful of people they have on duty is wholly inadequate.

                            That's what happens when you go cheap I guess.
                            ~Black Caesar~
                            Corbier's Commandos

                            " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I don't know if arming everyone would have prevented as many deaths. We had a shooter in a comunity college here in Montreal in September. I listened to the police operations on my scanner. The numbers of shooters could not be determined because witnesses were seeing plain clothed detectives running around with their guns drawn & thought that they were also suspects. I could imgine that if every one was armed people would shoot other armed people thinking they were the suspect.
                              I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                              Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                HS Is this the one you are referring to?

                                http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-70-398/...real_massacre/
                                THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
                                THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
                                http://www.boondocksaints.com/

                                Comment

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