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Stopping shoplifters in their tracks

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  • Mall Director
    replied
    Hmmmm.... Interesting observation!

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawson
    replied
    youtube user has made his video private view only.. wonder why..?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mall Director
    replied
    Maybe its just me, but you see two subjects enter your store, both wearing hoodies in the upward position, sunglasses at night, looking very similiar to eachother... I dunno, but thats a big red truck beeping at me!

    The minute they would have walked in, 9-1-1 would have been the first best step. As I watched, I wouldnt have known that they were there to steal beer until you all stated such. Just watching the video, that made me nervous as ever.. It looked like the settings for armed robbery. So an immediate call for PD to come out and just check things out would have been the first action, then stopping the subjects by show of force, and not deadly but presence, once you realize they are making it past the counter to leave, not rob you.

    The other big problem with this clerk, is his demeanor while handling the situation.
    1) drawing down for a head shot up close.. We all know that if a struggle takes effect, it only takes less then a second for someone to grab your weapon. Too close for comfort. Now i am not saying he should have brandished the weapon, but that is just another no-no!
    2) Barneys on camera.. Look at the way he is waving his weapon afterwards! All around, down, up, shaking it.. Public perception in court wont be kind seeing that.. so unprofessional looking and to be honest, looks like a goofball playing cops and robbers. He demonstrated no actual concern in physical behavior afterwards and was treating it like a joke, according to appearance.

    I have been through court enough, and watched trials of other security agencies to know the defense loves to ham that up! If you appear out of control, you can get drilled pretty hard in court, which shoots you creditability out the window.

    Just my thoughts.. But great video pic.. I may want to copy that for educational purposes of "what not to do"!

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Chucky
    I thought at first that the third guy was involved in some way. Nothing more than gut feeling. Somehow I feel that the whole thing was a set up. They couldn't have possibly thought that the clerk wouldn't see them in a mostly empty store

    The reason that I was pushing the gun pointing thing was that myself and a co worker were doing repairs in a place called Robins Yogurt shop in the Carrollwood section of Tampa that required us to work all night.

    When Robin came to open the next morning she instinctively entered the code in the alarm forgetting that we were in the back working. The key pad in fact was setting and the signal went in to the Hillsborough SO. Within Min's 2 of the SO/s finest came screaming up with guns drawn. Very intimating to say the lease but we didn't feel that our lives were in any danger. Although the cops may have felt that way.
    That's Florida. A sworn Law Enforcement Officer may point his gun at anyone, for any reason, while making an arrest or in performance of his duties. They are immune from civil and criminal liability, by statute, for anything short of killing you.

    I've known HCSO deputies who point their guns at EVERYONE.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Based on the mans handeling of gun and customers action I am leaning toward gun is not real! After girls flee is seems almost careless with it. since we don't know for sure I am leaning towards toy gun and he shows customer it is and both get a laugh

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  • LPCap
    replied
    People try beer runs and pushouts all the time, regardless of how busy or not a store is.

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  • Chucky
    replied
    I thought at first that the third guy was involved in some way. Nothing more than gut feeling. Somehow I feel that the whole thing was a set up. They couldn't have possibly thought that the clerk wouldn't see them in a mostly empty store

    The reason that I was pushing the gun pointing thing was that myself and a co worker were doing repairs in a place called Robins Yogurt shop in the Carrollwood section of Tampa that required us to work all night.

    When Robin came to open the next morning she instinctively entered the code in the alarm forgetting that we were in the back working. The key pad in fact was setting and the signal went in to the Hillsborough SO. Within Min's 2 of the SO/s finest came screaming up with guns drawn. Very intimating to say the lease but we didn't feel that our lives were in any danger. Although the cops may have felt that way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawson
    replied
    What else I noticed, aside from the point, was this guy should have treated the third customer as a threat as well, as soon as the two girls walked out, he lowered his guard and just started chatting with the guy, looking away from him, looking down at his gun, if that guy would have been in on it, he could have sent one of those bags of stuff into the clerk's face as a diversionary strike and plowed his ass to the ground. Then the fight would be on for the gun.

    He's obviously a grade-A moron.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    It does in Wisconsin. Pointing a weapon at someone in Wisconsin a crime. You are justified in pointing a weapon at someone if your life is in danger. The Racine Police Department got into a fair amount of trouble for pointing guns at unarmed teenagers.

    In Florida, law enforcement officers are excused from using any level of force, except lethal, while effecting an arrest. Pointing a gun at someone is "aggravated assault," which the police can do all day long because they're immune to civil and criminal complaints while making arrests under Florida Statute.

    (Obviously, excessive force constitutes a trump on the federal level.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Chucky
    The presence of an armed peace officer or the mere display of a weapon does not constitute the use of force.
    That's interesting, since I've been taught since 1993 that presence is the lowest level on the grand ol' Use of Force Continuum...SO, PD and Security, they've always taught that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chucky
    replied
    Hmmmm

    Police Training Institute
    1004 S. Fourth Street
    Champaign, IL 61820-6104

    What constitutes the use of force?

    Answer #2

    Use of force is an act of physical coercion. Generally it involves actual physical contact between persons. The presence of an armed peace officer or the mere display of a weapon does not constitute the use of force. Simply pointing a gun at a suspect in the course of an arrest does not constitute a use of excessive force. Wilkins v. May, 872 F.2d 190 (7th Cir. 1989). However, when an officer displays a weapon in a particularly egregious or threatening manner, this may be treated by the court as a use of force. For example, in McDonald v. Haskins, 966 F.2d 292 (7th Cir. 1992), the court analyzed the actions of an officer who held a gun to the head of a nine-year-old boy and threatened to pull the trigger as a use of force which was unreasonable given the circumstances.

    Of all the sites I explored this one is the only one I could find that address the act of simply pointing a gun at someone. All the others speak about the act of actually firing of the gun as deadly force.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    "I'm anonymous in the internet, no one cares."


    hehehe....

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  • T202
    replied
    Someone commits a crime then posts the video on the web for everyone to see. All someone has to do is search his user name and you will probably find him on another forum bragging about the video. You may even find out that his hobby is smoking dope and going to the range with his new Ruger and finally that he is from Tucson Az. Not too smart.

    Leave a comment:


  • LPGuy
    replied
    Not smart. This guy could easily face aggravated assault with a deadly weapon or brandishing a firearm charges. To add to it, he's apparently posted the video for all to see. His intent was likely noble, but verbal commands would probably have worked just as well.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Chucky
    Looked to me like he was clearing it as he appeared to aim at the ground and pull the trigger after he ejected the clip as he was moving off camera then jacked the round out of the chamber. Also not sure that just pointing a gun is considered deadly force more of a show of deadly force until he fires it. Think those girls will be back to try again?
    1. He looked like he activated the safety.

    2. This man is an idiot, he has no trigger discipline.

    3. This man is a c-store clerk, not a trained professional. Many states prohibit C-store employees from carrying even if they have a CCW, so he may be a felon.

    4. Pointing a gun at someone is threatening them with deadly force, in all fifty states. If you are not justified (either by qualified immunity, such as for law enforcement officers; or by being in fear of your life from lethal attack) then it is "attempted murder, aggravated battery," whatever. Of course, this guy doesn't know about this, and doesn't care. After all, the cops will never see this (maybe) and his boss encourages it.

    I have pointed guns at people before. And each time, I could articulate that there was I was in fear for my life from this person's actions. If you can't do that... You're probably going to jail if a cop sees you.

    Leave a comment:

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