Stopping shoplifters in their tracks

[LPCap]

Check out this youtube video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWWvDeqNygI

Crazy dude pulls a gun on some chicks attempting to steal beer from the store. Wow.....

[Mr. Security]

Check out this youtube video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWWvDeqNygI

Crazy dude pulls a gun on some chicks attempting to steal beer from the store. Wow.....

Bad move. You don't employ deadly force for a property crime like that.

[BadBoynMD]

Bad move. You don't employ deadly force for a property crime like that.

For one.. I'd hate to be this knucklehead, if a cop just happen to be outside when he walks outside like Joe Cool with a gun in hand.

Secondly, is it me, or does it look like he's "playing" with his gun? Right outside the door looks as if he's playing with the slide and twirling it?

[Chucky]

Looked to me like he was clearing it as he appeared to aim at the ground and pull the trigger after he ejected the clip as he was moving off camera then jacked the round out of the chamber. Also not sure that just pointing a gun is considered deadly force more of a show of deadly force until he fires it. Think those girls will be back to try again?

[FireEMSPolice]

I posted a comment. What a douche. All should face charges, including him.

[davis002]

I really wonder what State this was in...

[bigdog]

if it was florida its agg assault.

[N. A. Corbier]

Looked to me like he was clearing it as he appeared to aim at the ground and pull the trigger after he ejected the clip as he was moving off camera then jacked the round out of the chamber. Also not sure that just pointing a gun is considered deadly force more of a show of deadly force until he fires it. Think those girls will be back to try again?

1. He looked like he activated the safety.

2. This man is an idiot, he has no trigger discipline.

3. This man is a c-store clerk, not a trained professional. Many states prohibit C-store employees from carrying even if they have a CCW, so he may be a felon.

4. Pointing a gun at someone is threatening them with deadly force, in all fifty states. If you are not justified (either by qualified immunity, such as for law enforcement officers; or by being in fear of your life from lethal attack) then it is "attempted murder, aggravated battery," whatever. Of course, this guy doesn't know about this, and doesn't care. After all, the cops will never see this (maybe) and his boss encourages it.

I have pointed guns at people before. And each time, I could articulate that there was I was in fear for my life from this person's actions. If you can't do that... You're probably going to jail if a cop sees you.

[LPGuy]

Not smart. This guy could easily face aggravated assault with a deadly weapon or brandishing a firearm charges. To add to it, he's apparently posted the video for all to see. His intent was likely noble, but verbal commands would probably have worked just as well.

[T202]

Someone commits a crime then posts the video on the web for everyone to see. All someone has to do is search his user name and you will probably find him on another forum bragging about the video. You may even find out that his hobby is smoking dope and going to the range with his new Ruger and finally that he is from Tucson Az. Not too smart.

[N. A. Corbier]

"I'm anonymous in the internet, no one cares."


hehehe....

[Chucky]

Hmmmm

Police Training Institute
1004 S. Fourth Street
Champaign, IL 61820-6104

What constitutes the use of force?

Answer #2

Use of force is an act of physical coercion. Generally it involves actual physical contact between persons. The presence of an armed peace officer or the mere display of a weapon does not constitute the use of force. Simply pointing a gun at a suspect in the course of an arrest does not constitute a use of excessive force. Wilkins v. May, 872 F.2d 190 (7th Cir. 1989). However, when an officer displays a weapon in a particularly egregious or threatening manner, this may be treated by the court as a use of force. For example, in McDonald v. Haskins, 966 F.2d 292 (7th Cir. 1992), the court analyzed the actions of an officer who held a gun to the head of a nine-year-old boy and threatened to pull the trigger as a use of force which was unreasonable given the circumstances.

Of all the sites I explored this one is the only one I could find that address the act of simply pointing a gun at someone. All the others speak about the act of actually firing of the gun as deadly force.

[OccamsRazor]

The presence of an armed peace officer or the mere display of a weapon does not constitute the use of force.

That's interesting, since I've been taught since 1993 that presence is the lowest level on the grand ol' Use of Force Continuum...SO, PD and Security, they've always taught that.

[N. A. Corbier]

It does in Wisconsin. Pointing a weapon at someone in Wisconsin a crime. You are justified in pointing a weapon at someone if your life is in danger. The Racine Police Department got into a fair amount of trouble for pointing guns at unarmed teenagers.

In Florida, law enforcement officers are excused from using any level of force, except lethal, while effecting an arrest. Pointing a gun at someone is "aggravated assault," which the police can do all day long because they're immune to civil and criminal complaints while making arrests under Florida Statute.

(Obviously, excessive force constitutes a trump on the federal level.)

[Lawson]

What else I noticed, aside from the point, was this guy should have treated the third customer as a threat as well, as soon as the two girls walked out, he lowered his guard and just started chatting with the guy, looking away from him, looking down at his gun, if that guy would have been in on it, he could have sent one of those bags of stuff into the clerk's face as a diversionary strike and plowed his ass to the ground. Then the fight would be on for the gun.

He's obviously a grade-A moron.