Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

CNN security takes down shooter

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Chucky
    replied
    Just an FYI
    In the law suit brought by the city of Boston over a bunch of silly led cartoon signs Turner hasn't owned that company for 10 years. And also dumped Hanoi Jane shortly after. The new owners simply kept the Turner name for what it's worth.

    Leave a comment:


  • BadBoynMD
    replied
    Originally posted by Echos13
    Well, on a different point. I wonder what will happen to the S/O that shot the suspect? Promoted, praised, repremanded or fired? Turner may or may not know any of his security people but I wonder if he will look into the matter himself.
    Welp, as a company owner myself, I would only HOPE he would have been notified once the fan has cooled down. I'd also, hope that he has a policy regarding officer involved shootings. I, suppose only time will tell what Happens to Captain Adams (the officer that shot the subject).

    If one of my officers shot a subject that was deemed justified, I wouldn't give a promotion, reprimand or or termination papers. However, a letter to the officer, followed by a commendation award would be likely. Although, someone had died, the officer did in fact stop a potential threat of other lives.

    Leave a comment:


  • Echos13
    replied
    Well, on a different point. I wonder what will happen to the S/O that shot the suspect? Promoted, praised, repremanded or fired? Turner may or may not know any of his security people but I wonder if he will look into the matter himself.

    Leave a comment:


  • BadBoynMD
    replied
    Originally posted by Sarin
    I will be the first to admit when I was wrong.

    Certain websites don't load well on the work computer, which is what I use during lunchbreaks to catch up on the forum. CNN.com is one of them, so I was only able to receive the story from yahoo, which if you read, doesn't exactly coincide with CNN.com.

    You're right about trying to judge from a press report, and I do admit I was wrong in that. Just some of the information they spoke of about the guard "Watching the fight" sat wrong with me, although they mention nothing about that in the CNN.com article.

    There are still questions about it, and I'm not trying to Monday Morning Quarterback the situation or discredit what they guy did. It is all spur of the moment, and in the end, the only people who really know what occured are those involved.

    I apologize for seeming judgemental, but I think this is a case that could be learned from, especially by the workers or even people who were in the building. I've told my fellow associates before that if something doesn't seem right, or if someone is arguing or people seem threatening, call security. While we're human too, something about a uniform and being trained in deescalating situations tends to help. lol

    What the guard did was perfect in stopping it, especially if he had just arrived on the scene. Those types of decisions, split second or not, are hard to make.

    BadBoynMD


    Have tried it. And it's not a lot. Especially if you only have a baton and are dealing with someone who's high or deranged.

    SecTrainer


    I understand where you're coming from with that, and especially with Bill Warnock about the factual reports taken by security and law enforcement. One reason why I like to question, to try to figure out what could have gone different, is because I honestly believe that yes, he did what he needed to do and what he could do. But there had to have been some way to prevent her from getting killed.

    That's my main point. I really, honesty, fully and strongly believe that there is some lesson that we, as Security Professionals, can learn from this incident to find out 1) Why she was killed, 2) Why security wasn't alerted sooner, 3) How he got in with a gun, 4) How we can prevent this next time.

    I'm sure it did go down faster than it took me to write this post. And I know that the guard reacted as quickly and efficiently as he could. But I don't like thinking that this was a tragedy that can be repeated, because it can't be prevented.

    So like Bill said...it's something that should be entred into training. Something that we should analyze, see what went right (The S/O) and what went wrong in this situation.

    Hell...everyone was simply giving praise, and I agree that the Officer wholeheartedly deserves it. I say we give praise but ask what can be done better next time.

    Afterall, criminals are improving every day, and learn from every incident. Why shouldn't we?
    I'm all about asking question, because if you don't you won't know. Sadly, we live in a world of opportunity. Let's take the airports in as an example. You damn near have to strip down naked to board a plane. Yet, people are still getting restricted items onboard. Businesses aren't going to pay for White House type security, because the cost would be extremely high. They simply get a consultant to anaylze the property, and give some ideas of the type of security needed.

    All the facts in this situation aren't going to be released until the police, and DA's office finish their investigation. Once they are released I am sure this forum will be flooded with questiond and comments. As of right now, we are simply going on what we've seen (on TV) and read on cnn.com.

    Crimnals don't have rules they have to go by, we do and that's where ALOT of the issues lay.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sarin
    replied
    You make good points...

    I will be the first to admit when I was wrong.

    Certain websites don't load well on the work computer, which is what I use during lunchbreaks to catch up on the forum. CNN.com is one of them, so I was only able to receive the story from yahoo, which if you read, doesn't exactly coincide with CNN.com.

    You're right about trying to judge from a press report, and I do admit I was wrong in that. Just some of the information they spoke of about the guard "Watching the fight" sat wrong with me, although they mention nothing about that in the CNN.com article.

    There are still questions about it, and I'm not trying to Monday Morning Quarterback the situation or discredit what they guy did. It is all spur of the moment, and in the end, the only people who really know what occured are those involved.

    I apologize for seeming judgemental, but I think this is a case that could be learned from, especially by the workers or even people who were in the building. I've told my fellow associates before that if something doesn't seem right, or if someone is arguing or people seem threatening, call security. While we're human too, something about a uniform and being trained in deescalating situations tends to help. lol

    What the guard did was perfect in stopping it, especially if he had just arrived on the scene. Those types of decisions, split second or not, are hard to make.

    BadBoynMD
    20 feet sound like its alot? Try it once, you will be surprised.
    Have tried it. And it's not a lot. Especially if you only have a baton and are dealing with someone who's high or deranged.

    SecTrainer
    but that doesn't mean we can say how this specific incident "should have" gone down.

    There was a domestic murder/suicide on the campus of U. Washington just a couple of days ago. I understand that the whole incident took less than 2 minutes from the point of the initial confrontation to having two dead bodies. These events can actually happen in less time than it takes to describe them afterwards.
    I understand where you're coming from with that, and especially with Bill Warnock about the factual reports taken by security and law enforcement. One reason why I like to question, to try to figure out what could have gone different, is because I honestly believe that yes, he did what he needed to do and what he could do. But there had to have been some way to prevent her from getting killed.

    That's my main point. I really, honesty, fully and strongly believe that there is some lesson that we, as Security Professionals, can learn from this incident to find out 1) Why she was killed, 2) Why security wasn't alerted sooner, 3) How he got in with a gun, 4) How we can prevent this next time.

    I'm sure it did go down faster than it took me to write this post. And I know that the guard reacted as quickly and efficiently as he could. But I don't like thinking that this was a tragedy that can be repeated, because it can't be prevented.

    So like Bill said...it's something that should be entred into training. Something that we should analyze, see what went right (The S/O) and what went wrong in this situation.

    Hell...everyone was simply giving praise, and I agree that the Officer wholeheartedly deserves it. I say we give praise but ask what can be done better next time.

    Afterall, criminals are improving every day, and learn from every incident. Why shouldn't we?

    Leave a comment:


  • gonzo1510
    replied
    There are some good points being made here but the one thing that I would like to know is if there was a program at CNN where an employee can go to H.R. and alert them to any possible domestic issue and security would be notified.

    Are there such programs around ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    That is why after factual action reports examined by seasoned security and law enforcement officers is essential. Lessons learned should be taught at in-service training sessions.
    When a shooting occurred and as soon as nerves are calmed, a shooting board of seasoned, totally disinterested officers should be convened and an unbiased report rendered. Lessons learned should become a part of both in-service and academy training.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • DMS 525
    replied
    My last employer got into a firefight outside of a rave club. Thank God nobody was hit, and the situation got put to a stop.

    But in the following weeks, I heard so many say "he should've....." or "I would've.....", to where I would tell them matter of factly to STFU!!!

    Anyone who makes those kinds of assessments obviously has never been in such a situation, and God forbid if they ever should. Even those of us who have had close call experiences, and training under our belts never really know what will happen should we get into a deadly force situation. From what I know of this situation with CNN, it appears the SO put the situation to a stop without letting it escalate into something worse, and he should be applauded for that.

    I just hope the media doesn't turn this into a three ring circus.

    Leave a comment:


  • SecTrainer
    replied
    I don't think Sarin's questions are in any way out of line. We should always ask questions, if only to think about situations like these.

    Where I do take issue with Sarin is that unfortunately, we rarely have all the information from press reports, etc., so that we really can't pass judgement about whether this was preventable or not. In other words, we can and should ask questions - even just asking them is very useful - but that doesn't mean we can say how this specific incident "should have" gone down.

    There was a domestic murder/suicide on the campus of U. Washington just a couple of days ago. I understand that the whole incident took less than 2 minutes from the point of the initial confrontation to having two dead bodies. These events can actually happen in less time than it takes to describe them afterwards.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawson
    replied
    Originally posted by Echos13
    Curious. I watched the video. There were at least two differant uniforms present, maybe three. One of the uniforms had on bio-gloves. The one covering the suspect appeared to have a straight baton. Is this the S/O that shot the suspect? The scene looked a little cluterd and uncontroled. Still, I guess it could have been worse. You just can't have %100 contol unless your willing to go to extremes like federal buildings. And sometimes they fail every once and a while.
    Keep in mind this was a shooting that occured in an Atlanta major business complex, naturally your scene is going to be next to impossible to control. As for the multiple uniforms, CNN has Security and Police, it is likely that there was the security officers and CNN Police Officers arriving on scene.

    Leave a comment:


  • Echos13
    replied
    Curious. I watched the video. There were at least two differant uniforms present, maybe three. One of the uniforms had on bio-gloves. The one covering the suspect appeared to have a straight baton. Is this the S/O that shot the suspect? The scene looked a little cluterd and uncontroled. Still, I guess it could have been worse. You just can't have %100 contol unless your willing to go to extremes like federal buildings. And sometimes they fail every once and a while.

    Leave a comment:


  • BadBoynMD
    replied
    Originally posted by Sarin
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070404/...s/cnn_shooting

    Deadly force doesn't always have to be deadly.

    One of my questions is, if he was watching so closely, how did he not see the gun getting pulled out? And if somehow he had managed to and had shot the guy before the guy shot his girlfriend, would he still be the hero of the story?

    And you guys say it takes something like this to prove security is no laughing matter?

    Gauranteed, no one will remember the guards role in a few more days.

    Hooray for thankless jobs, right? LOL

    But this also poses a few other questions.

    In a building so monumental, and in an area that has suffered from terrorist attacks before, how did the man get in a gun? Do they have metal detectors on the entrances? Why did no one break up the fight before and tell the man to leave, instead of letting it continue? It states in the story that the perp dragged his girlfriend down the stairs--why didn't security tackle him then? That's assault right there. Especially since the victim was an employee of the establishment. Isn't it our job to protect our fellow associates and innocent patrons?

    It's good that the S/O was able to stop the perp before it could get any farther, but doesn't this bother some people? The fact that they could argue in public like this, with an S/O watching, and not be told to stop? And that the Security Officer's let it go so far as to letting this guy have the chance?

    There's a reason this job is thankless: Because when we do our duties correctly, it makes it seem like we're not needed at all. It makes people think they're safe, without realizing that we're the reason why they are.

    Why did the officers let this situation escalate that far? I honestly believe that if all of this had been handled correctly, and if protocol had been followed, this shooting would never have had the chance to occur.
    We don't always have the luxury of being like Superman or Batman that can show up out of no where to stop a threat. Without being there, we can all only assume while he's dragging this poor girl, he may have had his gun shoved on her. As Lawson stated this WHOLE event could have happened in under a min.

    Carrying a firearm is not a walk in the park like some make it out to be. Unfortunately, in this society that we live in, we as security/law enforcement and even police officer/feds all have to abide by rules and regs. However, criminals or as, I like to call them knuckleheads don't have rules or regs to abide by. They do what they what they want, when they want and however they have the gull enough to do. With that said, we all know the media is pretty much always 99% BS.

    It's a WHOLE new ball game when a knife or gun comes into play. I've been trained on what we call "the 20 feet rule", which is if someone has a knife and enters that 20 feet area, chances of getting shot are very likely. 20 feet sound like its alot? Try it once, you will be surprised. As for a man/woman with a gun, welp you don't drop it on command, and you raise it at someone else, or even the officer giving commands, then again your chances of being shot are very high. As for security officers that "watched", okay let's entertain that for a moment. Not all security officers are armed, and some companies only allow supervisors to carry a weapon. The officer that shot this man was in fact a captain with 11 years service. Our job is simply to "stop the threat", which he did.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawson
    replied
    Originally posted by Dam Guard
    It sure is Mr Lawson. Great job of monday morning quarterbacking there Sarin.
    Just to comment, I don't think he is so much monday morning qb'ing, but merely asking the questions we should all ask of ourselves in situations like that. It will help us learn and grow. However; all those questions are easy to ask/answer when you weren't the security officer responding to a shots fired situation.

    However;

    I do disagree with the "The shooting could have been stopped" title Sarin opened with. These things could have happened at a mile a minute, hell, we could have prevented this by killing this guy at birth, but not everything is feasible. We have to look at the side where this security officer made a move to stop a possible ongoing threat. Saying the shooting could have been stopped is like saying that a potential terrorist was killed at Columbine High School.
    Last edited by Lawson; 04-04-2007, 10:38 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • LPGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by Sarin
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070404/...s/cnn_shooting

    One of my questions is, if he was watching so closely, how did he not see the gun getting pulled out? And if somehow he had managed to and had shot the guy before the guy shot his girlfriend, would he still be the hero of the story?

    In a building so monumental, and in an area that has suffered from terrorist attacks before, how did the man get in a gun? Do they have metal detectors on the entrances? Why did no one break up the fight before and tell the man to leave, instead of letting it continue? It states in the story that the perp dragged his girlfriend down the stairs--why didn't security tackle him then? That's assault right there. Especially since the victim was an employee of the establishment. Isn't it our job to protect our fellow associates and innocent patrons?

    It's good that the S/O was able to stop the perp before it could get any farther, but doesn't this bother some people? The fact that they could argue in public like this, with an S/O watching, and not be told to stop? And that the Security Officer's let it go so far as to letting this guy have the chance?

    Why did the officers let this situation escalate that far? I honestly believe that if all of this had been handled correctly, and if protocol had been followed, this shooting would never have had the chance to occur.
    Maybe you need to read the original link posted by SIW Editor, which seems to tell a more complete story. Nowhere did I get the impression that any security officers stood by and watched the two argue, then only took action once the suspect had shot the woman. Rather, the more complete story says that an employee observed the suspect dragging the woman, and that employee quickly ran and summoned the nearest security officer. The security officer radioed for backup, arrived on scene, and shots were fired.

    I would caution you against criticizing or "armchair quarterbacking" at this point. There are far too few details to get a complete picture right now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dam Guard
    replied
    Monday morning quarterback.

    It sure is Mr Lawson. Great job of monday morning quarterbacking there Sarin.

    Leave a comment:

Leaderboard

Collapse
Working...
X