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  • Need new duty weapon--any ideas?

    Currently I am working as a armed security guard and carry a S&W 4046 DAO 40S&W. Ever since I began working with this company and carrying this weapon I and my other co-workers have reported on multiple occasions that our weapons have failed to fire and jam up every time we have used them. As of late management has still done nothing to fix this problem except blame the workers for the weapon problems. Currently 90% of our staff are ex-military and most are ex infantry so we know how to clean a weapon and take care of them. Just recently we had our state and fed quals and during the 90rnd interval I had at least 11 jams in which four of the jams were click no boom jams. Today I shot it again and had 2 weapon jams in 16rnds. Currently we are at a loss on what to do seeing as management will not even consider our pleas to get us new duty weapons.

    Now I consider myself a perfect employee. All i want to do is got to work, do my job, get hours, and get paid that is it. I don't like getting involved in all of the drama or politics of the security world but when it comes down to equipment that can save my life, a co-workers life, or an innocent civilians life that is when I become a little agitated and begin rocking the boat.

    Can anyone here tell me what to do about this? Is there anything we can do or is just a lost hope?

    Thank you for any and all help guys it is appreciated.
    Also is there anyway I can change my user name???

  • #2
    I worked a FPS contract and was issued the S&W 4046 TDW. We had some problems with it, but what can you do?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by publicsafetyred
      I worked a FPS contract and was issued the S&W 4046 TDW. We had some problems with it, but what can you do?
      That is unfortunate but hopefully we can do something or were just gonna have to break some policies.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by wackenhut hickey
        That is unfortunate but hopefully we can do something or were just gonna have to break some policies.
        It is for those reasons you stated the FBI and several other government agencies got rid of this weapon. You my friends inherited those handguns. You will notice Sig Sauer, H&K and Glocks are in wide usage. Some of the Glocks had feeding problems but to their credit, Glock quickly resolved. You'll delight in this one, when Smith and some others had a problem with dropped weapons discharging, Sig Sauer offered their firing pin safety technology free of charge. Smith, and only Smith declined. We were never ever allowed to put the 1911A1 into battery until the need arose. Some bright stars would cock and lock. Drop it just the right way, bang. Aircraft do not respond well to bullet holes.
        Enjoy the day,
        Bill

        Comment


        • #5
          Are you sure the feeding problems aren't related to the brand of ammunition you're firing through the gun? Try some different brands and see if you still have the same problem.

          I remember firing a friend's S&W Sigma .40 that had feeding problems with a certain brand of target ammunition. With other brands it wasn't as common, although it was still an issue.

          Other than that, maybe a gunsmith could take a look at it, but if it's happening with everyone's guns, it may just be a low quality weapon...

          Comment


          • #6
            Even if you don't want to be involved with the "drama", if the company makes you carry the weapon they issue you and you don't believe in its performance you need to document the issue and pass it on to every supervisor you know, until something is done about it. One way to do this would be to utilize the wonderful technology of a video camera. Make sure your camera has a time and date stamp, start off by getting a few officers together and cleaning your firearms on camera. Then load your magazines with the same type bullets you are issued or required to carry on duty, making sure you document the fact that they are the same brand and type of bullet. Each of you should fire the same amount of rounds and each officer should be recorded firing. The amount of FTF's should be counted and your findings should be recorded and a written letter along with a copy of the video should be forwarded to your supervisor (keep a copy for yourself and any officer involved in the testing). If your supervisor won't address the problem, then maybe their supervisor will, and so on.
            Another way to go about it would be to respectfully request, in writing that the policies be changed so that you may carry your own firearm, company approved of course. Then go on from there, making the video as your last resort.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wackenhut hickey
              Currently I am working as a armed security guard and carry a S&W 4046 DAO 40S&W. Ever since I began working with this company and carrying this weapon I and my other co-workers have reported on multiple occasions that our weapons have failed to fire and jam up every time we have used them. As of late management has still done nothing to fix this problem except blame the workers for the weapon problems. Currently 90% of our staff are ex-military and most are ex infantry so we know how to clean a weapon and take care of them. Just recently we had our state and fed quals and during the 90rnd interval I had at least 11 jams in which four of the jams were click no boom jams. Today I shot it again and had 2 weapon jams in 16rnds. Currently we are at a loss on what to do seeing as management will not even consider our pleas to get us new duty weapons.

              Now I consider myself a perfect employee. All i want to do is got to work, do my job, get hours, and get paid that is it. I don't like getting involved in all of the drama or politics of the security world but when it comes down to equipment that can save my life, a co-workers life, or an innocent civilians life that is when I become a little agitated and begin rocking the boat.

              Can anyone here tell me what to do about this? Is there anything we can do or is just a lost hope?

              Thank you for any and all help guys it is appreciated.
              Also is there anyway I can change my user name???
              I carried a S&W 9GVE 9mm for a year, and had the same problem. Tried different ammo, cleaned like a demon, even let a gunsmith work on it for 3 days to see if he could figure out what's wrong with it. At the end of the day, he said "it's a Smith and Wesson" ....

              I bought it because it was cheap, now I carry a Beretta again.
              ~Black Caesar~
              Corbier's Commandos

              " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

              Comment


              • #8
                We've all heard this before, the "Dude, its a Smith, what do you expect?" Now, the question is, what about the new M&P series? Is it still a Smith, or did they get a clue?

                The only Smith I trust is a revolver. They haven't screwed those up enough for me to notice.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                  We've all heard this before, the "Dude, its a Smith, what do you expect?" Now, the question is, what about the new M&P series? Is it still a Smith, or did they get a clue?

                  The only Smith I trust is a revolver. They haven't screwed those up enough for me to notice.
                  I put nearly 300 rounds through the AR clone, the M&P 15 (the 'T' version) a few weeks ago, no problems whatsoever...Of course, it's not really a Smith, but who cares?

                  The 40 seemed okay as well, no jams or FTFs, but I only ran 10-15 rounds through it, so take that with the proverbial grain of salt.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The only Smith I never had a problem with is my 686. I had a .40 that would jam or ftf about every 4-5 rounds. I got rid of it right away. Now Sig 220. Never have had a jam or misfire.

                    I agree with ff000525. Document the crap out of the problem and bring it up the chain of command until resolved. I would however do it in a "by the book" fashion and respectfully so it does not backfire (pun intended) on you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My gun is a Walther P99... It was a joint gun made by Walther & S&W.... Fortunately, I think Walther handled most of it, cause it's been a very good gun for me..

                      Through all the rounds I've put through it.. (Little over 2000, I believe).. It's only jammed ONCE... And that was when my wife was shooting it to see how it compared to her PT111... She has really small hands, so I think it may have been a wrist issue... She'll never admit it though... LOL

                      I've used a bunch of different brands of ammo, too... And I had heard that these guns supposedly had trouble cycling hollow-point rounds... I have yet to experience that myself.. It's never had a problem at all...
                      Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
                      Originally posted by ValleyOne
                      BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
                      Shoulda called in sick.
                      Be safe!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LPGuy
                        Are you sure the feeding problems aren't related to the brand of ammunition you're firing through the gun? Try some different brands and see if you still have the same problem.

                        I remember firing a friend's S&W Sigma .40 that had feeding problems with a certain brand of target ammunition. With other brands it wasn't as common, although it was still an issue.

                        Other than that, maybe a gunsmith could take a look at it, but if it's happening with everyone's guns, it may just be a low quality weapon...
                        The feeding problems may be ammo related but I doubt it. I have personally fed Federal Hydra-hocks (issue), Federal HST's, Winchester Rangers, Speer gold dots, and the regular range ammo through this gun and had failures with all. I cannot speak for anyone else. I have had failures with all. Some worse than others. We are trying to push the gunsmith idea but management is unwilling to cooperate w/ us. I have personally spoken with a couple of gunsmiths and have been told that I will loose my gun for almost a week which in return means I can't work.

                        Originally posted by ff000525
                        Even if you don't want to be involved with the "drama", if the company makes you carry the weapon they issue you and you don't believe in its performance you need to document the issue and pass it on to every supervisor you know, until something is done about it. One way to do this would be to utilize the wonderful technology of a video camera. Make sure your camera has a time and date stamp, start off by getting a few officers together and cleaning your firearms on camera. Then load your magazines with the same type bullets you are issued or required to carry on duty, making sure you document the fact that they are the same brand and type of bullet. Each of you should fire the same amount of rounds and each officer should be recorded firing. The amount of FTF's should be counted and your findings should be recorded and a written letter along with a copy of the video should be forwarded to your supervisor (keep a copy for yourself and any officer involved in the testing). If your supervisor won't address the problem, then maybe their supervisor will, and so on.
                        Another way to go about it would be to respectfully request, in writing that the policies be changed so that you may carry your own firearm, company approved of course. Then go on from there, making the video as your last resort.
                        I agree 100% with you on what you have said, great post. I did not think about the video taping idea I will have to talk this over with some of the guys and see how far we can go with this. Unfortunately we only have one supervisor and 1 manager so going to diffrent ones is impossible. Also I agree about going forward respectfully but we have been going forward respectfully since Sept (6 months) and they will say is operator error. Even when I spoke to them about my magazines that were deadline at that time they would not give me new ones I had to buy 2 mags w/ my own money.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bill Warnock
                          It is for those reasons you stated the FBI and several other government agencies got rid of this weapon. You my friends inherited those handguns. You will notice Sig Sauer, H&K and Glocks are in wide usage. Some of the Glocks had feeding problems but to their credit, Glock quickly resolved. You'll delight in this one, when Smith and some others had a problem with dropped weapons discharging, Sig Sauer offered their firing pin safety technology free of charge. Smith, and only Smith declined. We were never ever allowed to put the 1911A1 into battery until the need arose. Some bright stars would cock and lock. Drop it just the right way, bang. Aircraft do not respond well to bullet holes.
                          Enjoy the day,
                          Bill
                          LOL...Good post and great input. You would think that our company would jump on the band wagon with the rest of the world. Or at least the FPS guys would put an end to this. I agree that glock, HK, and sig are all very good weapons and will fix the problem at hand unfortunately Smith will not. IU ahve experienced this first hand.

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                          • #14
                            Am I correct in presuming that this is an issued weapon ?
                            The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke.

                            Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?

                            www.patrol4u.com


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gonzo1510
                              Am I correct in presuming that this is an issued weapon ?
                              You are 110% correct. This is an issued weapon. If it was my personal gun it would have melted to scrap metal awhile ago

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