Badge vs Badge

[Chucky]

I think we all have gotten the thread about why cops and security don't get along but here is one that also was on the news this morning. It showed cops in uniforms taking down several firemen in uniform. I was sort of busy an didn't get the drift of why this was going on I searched the net and couldn't find anything about it yet. But over the years cops and firemen have been at odds with each other in a lot of the larger cities.

Does anyone have an inside track as to why this is occurring? I would guess that each union is behind it or maybe the macho ness of each dept fears that the other is getting more glory than the other. Frankly I'm puzzled about this. I know that the both depts get along well here but for the most part they are all related to start with.

[Mr. Security]

I'm aware of this rivalry. Like most divisions, it's rooted in pride. NYC's finest & bravest squared off recently over who would be calling the shots if another 9/11 disaster occurred. It's pretty silly as far as I'm concerned. I'm tired of this "I'm better than you because......" non-sense.

[sgtnewby]

I'm aware of this rivalry. Like most divisions, it's rooted in pride. NYC's finest & bravest squared off recently over who would be calling the shots if another 9/11 disaster occurred. It's pretty silly as far as I'm concerned. I'm tired of this "I'm better than you because......" non-sense.

To add to this, I know that in the weeks after the 9-11 attacks, conveniently on the day that the gold and silver bullion was found in the reckage at groung zero, Mayor Gulliani issued an order to stop looking for remains, and change operations on the pile from "recovery" to "clean up," the FDNY were ordered off of the pile and the NYPD were ordered to keep the firefighters away. There is video of this and actually a few firefighters were arrested. There is actually a battle of sorts between the IAFF and Gulliani because they are mad that he campains as the 9-11 hero. I'll try to find the video.

[sgtnewby]

Here's some articles.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,257901,00.html

http://firefightingnews.com/article-US.cfm?articleID=27125

[HotelSecurity]

New York City has a real problem with this. NYPD has large heavy rescue units & seem to be in competition with the FDNY rescue units.

[Mr. Security]

If they want to compete, have a baseball game at Yankee Stadium. People would pay to see that.

[GCMC Security]

If they want to compete, have a baseball game at Yankee Stadium. People would pay to see that.

Well they have hockey games and soccer games against each other that I know of. Don't know about baseball though lol.

As for rivalries, a FD I was on a few years back had an interesting issue. We responded to a MVC with entrapment and the PD responded as well. My engine co was first on scene and our LT established Incident Command. As the LT and I started assessing the victims, PD rolled up. A LT from the PD started getting in our way (sticking his head in the vehicle, asking the vics questions). Our LT told the PD LT to get out of accident scene. The PD LT started yelling at us to get out of thier Crime Scene. Well words got traded and some of those words weren't friendly. Our LT was arrested for obstruction or some BS. State's Attorney refused to press charges because the City had no clear policy as to who is in charge in that circumstance.

(After our LT was arrested, we called Mutual Aid. When they arrived we turned over ops to them and departed the scene.)

[T202]

Hey Chucky, is this what you saw?

Police angry firefighters stood by at brawl

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=50a825d0-fb37-45b1-baf0-8e2c643a8990

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pATjJVdalZc

[Chucky]

Good find. That's the one.

[Mr. Security]

Well they have hockey games and soccer games against each other that I know of. Don't know about baseball though lol.

As for rivalries, a FD I was on a few years back had an interesting issue. We responded to a MVC with entrapment and the PD responded as well. My engine co was first on scene and our LT established Incident Command. As the LT and I started assessing the victims, PD rolled up. A LT from the PD started getting in our way (sticking his head in the vehicle, asking the vics questions). Our LT told the PD LT to get out of accident scene. The PD LT started yelling at us to get out of thier Crime Scene. Well words got traded and some of those words weren't friendly. Our LT was arrested for obstruction or some BS. State's Attorney refused to press charges because the City had no clear policy as to who is in charge in that circumstance.

(After our LT was arrested, we called Mutual Aid. When they arrived we turned over ops to them and departed the scene.)

If I were that LT's captain at police HQ, I'd have his bars.

[GCMC Security]

If I were that LT's captain at police HQ, I'd have his bars.

I wish, unfortunatly the rivalry ran deep. After I called MA and turned the scene over I had to explain why to the City Council. The PD Chief dug into the fact that I had a DUI (non criminal) almost 10 years ago and tried to point out that I hid it from the City. When in fact I had put it on my application.

The FD LT that was arrested was eventually pushed out of the dept due to the harrasment he recieved by the PD.

After awhile Med Calls were sent to the PD instead of FD (who knows why really, but we both were only first responders with a few EMTS in the FD.) AFter that would happen when ever they would get a real crappy call they would call us over.

[Mr. Security]

I wish, unfortunatly the rivalry ran deep. After I called MA and turned the scene over I had to explain why to the City Council. The PD Chief dug into the fact that I had a DUI (non criminal) almost 10 years ago and tried to point out that I hid it from the City. When in fact I had put it on my application.

The FD LT that was arrested was eventually pushed out of the dept due to the harrasment he recieved by the PD.

After awhile Med Calls were sent to the PD instead of FD (who knows why really, but we both were only first responders with a few EMTS in the FD.) AFter that would happen when ever they would get a real crappy call they would call us over.

I hope you didn't rush on those calls. Must get there SAFELY, you know.

[Black Caesar]

People are just proud of whatever service they are apart of. It's the same with the military, when I worked at another campus (in the same college district), the Chief and one of the Sgts were Ex-Marines, the other Sgt was Retired Navy. OMG, the endless jokes. Add to that the Senior Lt and 2 of the patrol officers were ex-Army, and, well, it got ridiculas lol.

99% of Police/firefighter rivalries are the same kind of good natured "yuck yuck you suck" stuff. My favorite quips are:

-"If cops wanted love, we'd have been firefighters"

and

-"God made Cops so Firefighters would have someone to look up to".


But sometimes, toes get stepped on, boundaries get crossed and it gets serious, and like any family fued, it gets nasty quick. Just a part of life.

[GCMC Security]

People are just proud of whatever service they are apart of. It's the same with the military, when I worked at another campus (in the same college district), the Chief and one of the Sgts were Ex-Marines, the other Sgt was Retired Navy. OMG, the endless jokes. Add to that the Senior Lt and 2 of the patrol officers were ex-Army, and, well, it got ridiculas lol.

99% of Police/firefighter rivalries are the same kind of good natured "yuck yuck you suck" stuff. My favorite quips are:

-"If cops wanted love, we'd have been firefighters"

and

-"God made Cops so Firefighters would have someone to look up to".


But sometimes, toes get stepped on, boundaries get crossed and it gets serious, and like any family fued, it gets nasty quick. Just a part of life.

I wish this was always the case. But in a small toen a lot of it stems to who gets a bigger budget. They were upset because we were getting new equipment and they had to wait a year. It was a lot more than the yuck yuck kinda rivalry

[exguard]

It's a matter of Pride

The battle of the badges has been going on for decades between Firefighters and Law Enforcement. It is what what it is......A bunch of nonsense if you ask me but to some it's a matter of pride.

As most of you might be aware I work in a large 1000 plus acre refinery for the plant protection department {basically the police force of the facility} we also respond to fires, medical emergencies, rescues, haz-mat calls, and so on mainly for support than actual operations but there are times when we have to get involved with the operation. We have a seperate fire department that believes we shouldn't be doing Fire, EMS, and everything else because we're patrol officers and all we're good for is escorting trucks, and directing traffic around thier drama. It's a battle of the badges so to speak.

Yet our Supervisor is tasked with being the incient commander at all emergencies so obviously we take part becuase 9 out of 10 times we're needed to some degree or another whether it's actually being involved in the operation as a firefighter, EMT, Haz-Mat Tech, or being on the boat involved in a river rescue or recovery, or just acting in a support role

Some of our "firefighters" {they're really equipment inspectors} don't like us because of our flexability and abilities....some of us have more qualifications than they do ~ But we stick to the Incident command system and operate when / where told to. ~ I understand the pride and tadition thing , it's normal and it's everyday. 9/11 Changed alot of it but there's still a long road to travel.......If god-forbid another 9-11 occurs in NYC I honestly think it depends on the type of situation as to whom is in charge.......Fire/Explosions than Fire is in charge. Gun-Fire and mass bodies than Police have it...Pretty Simple