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  • #16
    Does anyone know if he still has a job???
    Deadly Force.... in line with the liquor act and criminal code here, the key words is reasonible force. Yes this idiot hit up on a female (sumonary offence here) but to blow him away or flog him with a baseball bat would be deemed excessive force and we would be minimum charge for excessive force and grieves harm let alone lose our security licence.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Squidly
      Does anyone know if he still has a job???
      Deadly Force.... in line with the liquor act and criminal code here, the key words is reasonible force. Yes this idiot hit up on a female (sumonary offence here) but to blow him away or flog him with a baseball bat would be deemed excessive force and we would be minimum charge for excessive force and grieves harm let alone lose our security licence.
      He is on amin leave pending a hearing and has been down this road before whereas him and a few friends kicked the crap out of some guy an the guy died. That case for what ever reason was dismissed. I also read that he was just out of rehab for other problems prior to this fiasco. Some how I don't know how Badboy misconstrewed my opening post as to the fact that I would be the one to shoot him and it is a lack of training that I have.

      "I would have to say that this guy warrants use of deadly force to stop him from killing her."

      My point was that this would be a good shooting in court if there is such a thing as a good shooting as we all know. I think DMS 525 post best sums up my frame of mind yesterday when I saw this clip on TV. Anger and compassion was foremost what I wanted to express as a human being not the training that I do or don't have.
      THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
      THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
      http://www.boondocksaints.com/

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Chucky
        He is on amin leave pending a hearing and has been down this road before whereas him and a few friends kicked the crap out of some guy an the guy died. That case for what ever reason was dismissed. I also read that he was just out of rehab for other problems prior to this fiasco. Some how I don't know how Badboy misconstrewed my opening post as to the fact that I would be the one to shoot him and it is a lack of training that I have.

        "I would have to say that this guy warrants use of deadly force to stop him from killing her."

        My point was that this would be a good shooting in court if there is such a thing as a good shooting as we all know. I think DMS 525 post best sums up my frame of mind yesterday when I saw this clip on TV. Anger and compassion was foremost what I wanted to express as a human being not the training that I do or don't have.
        Why do you think there is such a thing as training? If we all went and conducted our security duties with the thinking of regular Joe Citizen.. The Johnny Cochran's of the world would be loving life even more. We train, well most of us train so we don't think and react as ordinary human beings. Security officers practically mirror most duties of police officers, therefore while everyone is running away from the threat, we're running to the threat to stop the threat. Of course, there are some security officers that will be seen running away with the crowd. The ones that are trained, however will be running to it, unless of course you're an unarmed officer and theres a weapon involved.

        Does the actions of this man piss me off, ABSOLUTELY, but is my immediately thought deadly force, absolutely not. It would have only been a good shooting if that was your last resort. However, we can debate this till our fingers fall off, the end decision is up to the wonderful Offfice of the District Attorney. You may not see or understand what I'm saying, but if you ever take a offcer safety and survival class, then you might understand. We all have our opinions and etc, and the use of force continum has been and always will be debated. In the end, as a instructor stated once "It's all in how you write your report".
        "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by BadBoynMD
          Why do you think there is such a thing as training? If we all went and conducted our security duties with the thinking of regular Joe Citizen.. The Johnny Cochran's of the world would be loving life even more. We train, well most of us train so we don't think and react as ordinary human beings. Security officers practically mirror most duties of police officers, therefore while everyone is running away from the threat, we're running to the threat to stop the threat. Of course, there are some security officers that will be seen running away with the crowd. The ones that are trained, however will be running to it, unless of course you're an unarmed officer and theres a weapon involved.

          Does the actions of this man piss me off, ABSOLUTELY, but is my immediately thought deadly force, absolutely not. It would have only been a good shooting if that was your last resort. However, we can debate this till our fingers fall off, the end decision is up to the wonderful Offfice of the District Attorney. You may not see or understand what I'm saying, but if you ever take a offcer safety and survival class, then you might understand. We all have our opinions and etc, and the use of force continum has been and always will be debated. In the end, as a instructor stated once "It's all in how you write your report".
          The thing is, there IS no black or white when it comes to force scenarios.. It's always a grey area... You make some valid points, that deadly force probably wouldn't have been the best FIRST choice, but on the other hand the points about her size vs. his, intensity of his attack, etc are also valid, because similar points have been used to clear people in the past in self-defense cases. So as you said, we can debate it all day long... But in the end it would be up to the courts to decide if the situation was bad enough to warrant deadly force..

          Personal opinion? From just seeing the video, I probably wouldn't have gone for deadly force. Even though his size gave him the potential to cause serious injury, she got up right away.. Which proves once again that when you're intoxicated you're not as much of a billy [email protected]## as you think you are.. If I were a responding Officer and walked in on this, I'd probably taser him. OC would be a second choice, but would affect the other patrons as well, so I'd rather just take him down.

          I wonder... If he had a history of this behavior already, and had just recently been cleared to return to duty... What do you think the department is going to say about the docs who cleared him?
          Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
          Originally posted by ValleyOne
          BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
          Shoulda called in sick.
          Be safe!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Charger
            The thing is, there IS no black or white when it comes to force scenarios.. It's always a grey area... You make some valid points, that deadly force probably wouldn't have been the best FIRST choice, but on the other hand the points about her size vs. his, intensity of his attack, etc are also valid, because similar points have been used to clear people in the past in self-defense cases. So as you said, we can debate it all day long... But in the end it would be up to the courts to decide if the situation was bad enough to warrant deadly force..

            Personal opinion? From just seeing the video, I probably wouldn't have gone for deadly force. Even though his size gave him the potential to cause serious injury, she got up right away.. Which proves once again that when you're intoxicated you're not as much of a billy [email protected]## as you think you are.. If I were a responding Officer and walked in on this, I'd probably taser him. OC would be a second choice, but would affect the other patrons as well, so I'd rather just take him down.

            I wonder... If he had a history of this behavior already, and had just recently been cleared to return to duty... What do you think the department is going to say about the docs who cleared him?
            You know, you bring up another really good point. She did, in fact got up without no issues. Also, if you notice before he "went off" she darn near knocked him on his arse, and thats when he "went off".

            As far as the gray area.. you summed up in better detail what I was saying in regards to the DA's office.
            "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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            • #21
              I dont know about deadly force but I definetly taser in that case.
              Robert
              Here endith the lesson

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