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How Do We Do Security In Post Policing World?

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  • How Do We Do Security In Post Policing World?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-shortage.html
    • county in California with one of the highest violent crime rates in the United States is getting rid of daytime patrols by the local sheriff's office
    • Tehama County, about 120 miles north of the state capital in Sacramento, is ending daytime patrol because employees keep leaving
    • This could prove dangerous, as the county's most populated city of Red Bluff has a violent crime rate higher than around 97 percent of the country
    • The sheriff's office released a statement where Sheriff Dave Hencratt admitted this was to 'manage a catastrophic staffing shortage throughout the agency'
    • A Facebook post from the sheriff's office laid the blame with county administrators and the board of supervisors

    Where I'm at security is not allowed to detain unless it's for a felony committed in the presence of the person doing the detention. There's also a general understanding that if security does in fact detain somebody the guard is going to lose their job.

    So what happens if you're a loss prevention officer and you detain a person suspected for shop lifting and you call it in to and they tell you they're not coming.

    Now what?

    at what point is security simply dragging people off site and having to beat them to keep them from coming back?
    Last edited by The Night Rider; 01-13-2023, 02:52 AM.

  • #2
    As someone who works in California, specifically in San Francisco Bay Area, I can tell you that things are getting interesting out here. Eventually they will have to give us authority to conduct investigative detentions and transport for arrests as needed. We’ve had situations where me and my team have had to handle group fights with additional armed suspects showing up to join said group fight and local PD taking 40 minutes to respond. The way my job does it patrol and supervisors back up standing posts and we handle business as best as possible until local PD show up whenever they can (which can be two hours).

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    • #3
      I have been looking for this video since I posted my first post. This story literally Hit YouTube and read it an hour after I posted the original Post in this discussion.

      it was a loss prevention associate at Guitar Center doing exactly what I said he dragged the guy to the front door took the guitar away from him choked him out and they literally picked him up and dumped him on the sidewalk.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by SF_Security Officer View Post
        As someone who works in California, specifically in San Francisco Bay Area, I can tell you that things are getting interesting out here. Eventually they will have to give us authority to conduct investigative detentions and transport for arrests as needed. We’ve had situations where me and my team have had to handle group fights with additional armed suspects showing up to join said group fight and local PD taking 40 minutes to respond. The way my job does it patrol and supervisors back up standing posts and we handle business as best as possible until local PD show up whenever they can (which can be two hours).
        Never going to happen.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Soper View Post

          Never going to happen.
          As much as it pains me to say this, I have to agree with Spork.

          security or not sworn officers. They're not going to get to do sworn officer things

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          • #6
            I'm sure when there are no cameras, SJWs or cops around, things happen on certain sites. The problem is Security doesn't want to get into a war with these people - they can come back with two or three of their buddies, fan out and do lots of property damage. As I said on my other post, the ones in Seattle are now arming themselves with pipes and knives, which they openly carry. (And we all thought "The Purge" was just fiction...)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
              And we all thought "The Purge" was just fiction...)
              if you're paying attention to the backstory of The Purge. It's the homeless people that they're purging

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              • #8
                Originally posted by The Night Rider View Post

                As much as it pains me to say this, I have to agree with Spork.

                security or not sworn officers. They're not going to get to do sworn officer things
                Never say never. At the end of the day a law is only as good as who enforces it. Make enough cops apathetic or afraid of doing their jobs or make police departments so under staffed and under scrutiny that they will take whatever help they can get especially in areas where the local population is hostile to law enforcement. This is from my personal experience of having worked in areas where local PD practically let us do whatever we needed to to get the job done. I think eventually it will happen de facto and eventually become de jure status. That being said I don’t think all private security personnel will be given that authority/leeway but it would work out to something like a SCOP, special police or even British PCSO.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by SF_Security Officer View Post

                  Never say never. At the end of the day a law is only as good as who enforces it. Make enough cops apathetic or afraid of doing their jobs or make police departments so under staffed and under scrutiny that they will take whatever help they can get especially in areas where the local population is hostile to law enforcement. This is from my personal experience of having worked in areas where local PD practically let us do whatever we needed to to get the job done. I think eventually it will happen de facto and eventually become de jure status. That being said I don’t think all private security personnel will be given that authority/leeway but it would work out to something like a SCOP, special police or even British PCSO.
                  Which would still be sworn officers.

                  if you want a good look at what happens when you give Private Security Police Authority you might want to read about the Pinkerton detective agency or the Johnson County War.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SF_Security Officer View Post

                    Never say never. At the end of the day a law is only as good as who enforces it. Make enough cops apathetic or afraid of doing their jobs or make police departments so under staffed and under scrutiny that they will take whatever help they can get especially in areas where the local population is hostile to law enforcement. This is from my personal experience of having worked in areas where local PD practically let us do whatever we needed to to get the job done. I think eventually it will happen de facto and eventually become de jure status. That being said I don’t think all private security personnel will be given that authority/leeway but it would work out to something like a SCOP, special police or even British PCSO.
                    Nope. You don’t seem to understand Law.

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                    • #11
                      Even a blind Spork finds an Acorn occasionally

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                      • #12
                        I think private security will become like bouncers - they're not detaining anyone for arrest, they're just tossing them out and making them go to stores / areas that don't have security.

                        Vigilante homeowners and shop keepers may become a thing, at least in areas that aren't as passive as Seattle and SF. Somethings got to give - you have few cops, back logged prosecutors and progressive judges that won't sentence anyone. (And depending on your states, judges can't be recalled, and the liberal politicians won't fire them.) The homeless fentanyl zombies are slowly making their way into rich neighborhoods - the wealthy won't stand for it - or maybe they will. Nobody seems to care...

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
                          I think private security will become like bouncers - they're not detaining anyone for arrest, they're just tossing them out and making them go to stores / areas that don't have security.

                          Vigilante homeowners and shop keepers may become a thing, at least in areas that aren't as passive as Seattle and SF. Somethings got to give - you have few cops, back logged prosecutors and progressive judges that won't sentence anyone. (And depending on your states, judges can't be recalled, and the liberal politicians won't fire them.) The homeless fentanyl zombies are slowly making their way into rich neighborhoods - the wealthy won't stand for it - or maybe they will. Nobody seems to care...
                          I was walking out of the gym yesterday and I saw something that made me think about you. There was a car parked in the gym parking lot with around here we call it a Temp Tag on their car that expired in December of 2021. And it's odd about your Broken Windows Theory. If the cops aren't pulling people over why would you bother to update your license plate?

                          Human beings are evil, people do not obey laws out of the goodness of their heart or any innate moral compass. They obey laws because they're afraid of punishment.

                          if the police stop responding to shoplifting calls the frequency of shoplifting incidents will increase.

                          around here they're starting to be a trend where the police are picking people up for a crime and finding out that they've been no bailed and released five or six times within the last 6 months. Why wouldn't you go commit crimes you're going to spend one night in jail and then you're back out and maybe you'll go to court in 2 years

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                          • #14
                            You nailed it, Night Rider! In Washington, police can't pursue anymore except in very specific instances - red light running is now the norm. Up here, I'd say half the Temp Tags are fake - if they're driving with any plates at all.

                            Juveniles aren't detained anymore in Seattle (there is place to put them, since the the youth detention center was closed). With checked out parents, no cops and no jail for them, they just run amok in the city doing as they please. Glad to see we're training the next generation of criminals early on.

                            I won't say most people are evil - I'll say most people are selfish. Laws and regulations are meant to keep society functioning smoothly, and we haven't seen that since before 2020. You want to see what America is going to become? Look at South Africa or Somalia. The rich people live in enclaves or specific areas of a city with private security and broken glass glued to the top of tall walls, everybody else fends for themselves "Mad Max" style.

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