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Long Island Hospitals Gearing Up To Train Arm Security Officers

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  • Consolewatcher
    replied
    Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
    I'm assuming it is a management bias. And I don't know how you overcome it without there being a serious incident / injury. Even when you show them the statistics (i.e. rising crime in the area, or on the site), or convince them to look at defensive equipment as tools for the job (you wouldn't ask a carpenter to work without a hammer, or a janitor without a mop), there is still the tired arguments - "We want a friendly image, "Can they be trusted and not screw up?", "It's not in the budget," etc.

    One more thing: Phantom is back, yea!
    The way I see it, if a client wants a "friendly image" then that is their choice to make. HOWEVER, clients *also* need to recognize that to perform x tasks certain tools are needed, and they don't always look friendly. If you don't want me wearing certain equipment because they're not "friendly" looking, then I have no problem with that, as long as you don't expect me to enter into a situation where I might need it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim1348
    replied
    I had a conversation a few days ago with a guy from one of the VA hospitals. They are armed, but don't carry Glocks. They carry Beretta or Sig Sauer, I can't recall which at the moment, specifically because they disarm when they go on the locked psychiatric floors and their sidearm won't fire when the magazine is removed.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhantomX0990
    replied
    Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
    I'm assuming it is a management bias. And I don't know how you overcome it without there being a serious incident / injury. Even when you show them the statistics (i.e. rising crime in the area, or on the site), or convince them to look at defensive equipment as tools for the job (you wouldn't ask a carpenter to work without a hammer, or a janitor without a mop), there is still the tired arguments - "We want a friendly image, "Can they be trusted and not screw up?", "It's not in the budget," etc.
    Exactly. We had external carry vests for less than a week before admin said no because we looked too 'tactical'. With everything going on in MN, particularly in hospitals and in the prisons with CO's getting killed and assaulted more frequently it led to a lot of our officers saying what has to happen for them to take us seriously? Who has to get hurt? There are so many things that need to change. In particular staffing. We're so far understaffed when we AREN'T missing people. We've were fully staff for maybe a month since I've been at my hospital in the three years I've been here. It's becoming a trend that we're often below minimum, especially on nights, where we might have as little as one officer available for the entire hospital.

    Personally, I don't want to be armed in a hospital. Anywhere else? Yeah, sure. But we're in close quarters so often with people. I just don't want that liability on my hip.

    Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
    One more thing: Phantom is back, yea!
    Haha, well, I stopped by and saw that some trash had been taken out, so.

    Leave a comment:


  • Condo Guard
    replied
    I'm assuming it is a management bias. And I don't know how you overcome it without there being a serious incident / injury. Even when you show them the statistics (i.e. rising crime in the area, or on the site), or convince them to look at defensive equipment as tools for the job (you wouldn't ask a carpenter to work without a hammer, or a janitor without a mop), there is still the tired arguments - "We want a friendly image, "Can they be trusted and not screw up?", "It's not in the budget," etc.

    One more thing: Phantom is back, yea!

    Leave a comment:


  • PhantomX0990
    replied
    None of the MN hospitals are armed. Hell, giving us tasers was already a hassle.

    Leave a comment:


  • ColePhelps1247
    replied
    NYS has University Police at SUNY schools. In my city, a university is also part of a hospital. So those same police care for the exterior of the hospital (unless a problem inside requires police). They contracted unarmed guards for interior, which I was for a period of time. paid very well for unarmed, I think close to $18-19 an hour now. Hospitals arent my thing and I couldnt do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Condo Guard
    replied
    Cost, liability insurance and optics are the three major concerns for upper management. Most hospital security that I've seen in WA have some type of defensive equipment, but if the officer is actually armed it is usually a local police officer in the ER or close by.

    As we see a decrease in law enforcement officers in certain areas and a rise in crime, you'll see more armed security, contract and in house. The big security companies (Securitas, Allied-Universal, etc.) could do themselves and the public a favor by increasing standards and training, and publicizing that. That would put pressure on smaller companies and states with loose regulations to re-think the issue.

    I've seen a lot more armed security at high end retail stores - they aren't there to prevent the thefts, they're there to deter assaults and full blown armed robberies. (Which is weird, because high end customers generally don't pay in cash. On the other hand, most crooks aren't doing any deep thinking about their next crime.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim1348
    replied
    Now that I give this some more thought, there are a number of state agencies, that are unarmed, that sort of surprise me because they haven't been armed. For example, here are a few that come to mind:

    -Minnesota Capitol Security

    -Minnesota State Fire Marshal's Office

    -Minnesota State University Security

    Leave a comment:


  • Long Island Hospitals Gearing Up To Train Arm Security Officers

    Has anybody here noticed more places going armed for proprietary in-house security departments? I am in Minnesota and I have not noticed this. Sure, there are contract guards that are armed, but virtually all hospital and college/university security officers are unarmed here. Minnesota does have a statute that prohibits most city, county and state employees from carrying a firearms on duty, unless you are a licensed peace officer. There are some exceptions, however. For example, some of the military security guards are state employees and are armed. The statute specifically allows that. The government employees at the international airport that eradicate certain wildlife are exempt. Otherwise, for city, county, township or state employees to carry a firearm on duty, you must be employed as a peace officer.

    Private colleges, universities and hospitals would be permitted to arm their security staff, but I simply haven't seen any of those organizations do it around Minnesota. The University of Saint Thomas is the largest private college in Minnesota. They might be a likely candidate for arming some of their security staff, but my understanding is that they hire off-duty Saint Paul Police Officer, if they want or need an armed presence on campus.

    There are some pretty large hospitals around Minnesota, too, but, to the best of my knowledge, all of their in-house security is unarmed.

    I assume that like many things in life, the bottom line is cost. As violence continues and more active shooters focus on soft targets, like colleges/universities and hospitals, could they give renewed consideration to having armed security officers? I am also seeing more law enforcement agencies in Minnesota having a tougher time recruiting and retaining sworn officers. So, I suspect that means that at some point, the availability of officers to work off-duty at colleges/universities and hospitals will become a problem.

    https://www.newsday.com/long-island/...als-1.27924015

    Armed security officers could patrol six Catholic Health Services hospitals across Long Island and NYU Winthrop Hospital in Mineola this year, joining armed officers deploying or already deployed at Stony Brook University Hospital and most of Northwell Health's 13 LI hospitals, officials at the health systems said.

    Nationally and on Long Island in recent years, hospitals — along with school districts, places of worship and local governments — have taken steps to increase security that include hiring armed security officers, installing security cameras and metal detectors, and training staffers on active shooter scenarios with police and sheriff’s department officers.

    Fifty-two percent of hospitals in a national survey had armed personnel with handguns, according to a 2016 article in the research journal Workplace Health and Safety.

    William Smith, director of security at St. Catherine of Siena Medical Center, a Catholic Health Services hospital, told Smithtown Town Council members at a Feb. 5 work session about St. Catherine's intention to arm security officers.

    “We’re being proactive,” Smith said. “The world we live in today, it’s needed … We’re considered a soft target.”

    Winthrop spokesman J. Edmund Keating cited gang violence on Long Island and mass shootings nationally, such as the Parkland, Florida, school massacre last year, as reasons why the hospital likely will add armed guards by the end of the year.

    "We have pretty much reached the conclusion it’s going to be a necessity because the times have changed,” he said.

    Active shooter incidents like the ones Keating referred to account for a fraction of gun deaths in the United States, and those in health care facilities comprised only four of the 50 incidents in the U.S. identified by the FBI in 2016 and 2017. But the rate of serious workplace violence incidents in health care was more than four times greater than in private industry from 2002 to 2013, according to the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration. Health care accounted for nearly as many serious violent injuries as all other industries combined.

    There were at least 17 fatal hospital shootings across the U.S. between 2002 and 2018, according to a count by The Associated Press last year. Among the shootings was a July 2017 attack at Bronx-Lebanon Hospital, where a disgruntled former doctor killed one doctor and wounded six other people.

    At least two nonfatal firearm incidents occurred at Long Island hospitals during that time: John Gamble, 35, of Riverhead, in 2016 fired multiple rounds in the parking lot of Northwell’s Southside Hospital in Bay Shore, but no one was injured; and Dennis Cartwright, of Southold, armed with a pistol in 2003, held the burn unit at then-Stony Brook University Medical Center hostage because he believed the staff was not properly caring for a relative.

    At Catholic Health Services, Chris Hendriks, vice president for public and external affairs, said in an email that the health system was “exploring the possibility of armed guards.” She did not consent to multiple interview requests or explain the apparent contradiction with what Smith told Smithtown officials.

    Smith did not respond to a message left for him at St. Catherine, but during the work session he said Catholic Health's board in late December approved arming security officers "throughout our six hospitals." In a program "set to go live" July 1, only current or former police officers will be armed, he told the board. Policy is still being written on use of force, which weapons the officers will carry, and whether they will be uniformed or in what he called “soft” clothes, he said.

    The St. Catherine staff has participated in active shooter drills with Suffolk County police and has safe rooms in the hospital, Smith said told the board.

    "Police are onboard. They know," he said, though Suffolk County Police Chief Stuart Cameron said the department had not been formally advised of the armed security officer program.

    Cameron said his officers have helped train staffers at a number of public offices and hospitals on active shooter response. Hospitals present a unique challenge, because of their sometimes “emotionally charged environment” and the difficulty of evacuating patients who may not be able to move on their own, he said.

    The department has no fixed stance on arming security officers, Cameron said. “It all depends on how it’s done — who you hire, what type of weapons you equip them with, what type of training and what type of ammunition they have,” he said.

    Nassau County police conducted more than 100 active-assailant trainings over the past year for hospitals, schools, houses of worships and other entities, police spokesman Det. Lt. Richard LeBrun said.

    Catholic Health Services also operates hospitals in Oyster Bay, Hempstead, North Hempstead, Brookhaven and Islip. Officials in those towns, except Islip, said the health system had not advised them of its plan. Islip chief of staff Tracey Krut said in an email the town has no jurisdiction over hospital security officers, but did not say if Catholic Health Services had told town officials of a plan to arm security officers. Krut did not respond to Newsday's requests for clarification.

    Stony Brook University Hospital has had armed patrols for 25 years, Robert Lenahan, chief of the university police department, said in an email. That’s because the university has had its own police department since 1999 and, before that, had armed public-safety officers, he said. Officers patrol inside and outside the hospital.

    In addition to armed police officers, there are unarmed security officers who communicate via the same campus dispatch system as armed police, Lenahan said.

    Northwell expects to have armed guards in all its 13 Long Island hospitals — and all 23 regionwide — within the next several months, said Scott Strauss, assistant vice president of corporate security at Northwell and a former NYPD detective.

    Other hospitals around the Island are reviewing their security needs.

    South Nassau Communities Hospital in Oceanside, which is part of the Manhattan-based Mount Sinai Health System, is not considering armed guards, but “we’re always evaluating our security needs on a day-to-day basis,” so that could change, hospital spokesman Joe Calderone said.

    There already are security guards at main entrances who are “eyeing everybody who walks in, walks out, walks by,” he said. More security cameras will be added inside and outside the hospital, said Stephen Biscotti, the hospital’s chief of security and a former NYPD counterterrorism detective.

    Northwell, South Nassau Communities, Stony Brook and Winthrop all declined to release the number of guards or officers patrolling hospitals, with most citing security reasons. Northwell said in a statement that there are “several hundred” armed and unarmed guards in its 23 hospitals. Lenahan said that, at Stony Brook, “Levels are designed to effectively respond in emergency situations.”

    South Nassau Communities, Northwell and Winthrop declined to discuss the salaries of guards. Stony Brook said in an email that the average annual salary for a campus police officer is $61,000, and for unarmed security guards $40,000.

    Northwell officials said the hospital system’s beefed-up security — including armed guards and the installation of gates at entrances — likely will cost more than $1 million.

    Northwell said in a statement that its “armed guards have the same authority as an unarmed guard” and can use physical, nonlethal force in limited circumstances, such as defending someone or preventing theft.

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