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Is having unarmed security on a site immoral?

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  • #16
    I said it before but I don't carry a gun to defend the client's property. I carry a gun to defend myself and I would say client employees but they're mostly not around when I'm there so...

    There are things that unarmed security can do well like physical security checks. Actually checking the doors and gates to make sure they're locked. Unarmed security is good for firewatch and it's also good because if you see some weird stuff going on in the neighborhood you can call the cops just come do a drive-thru.

    I catch hookers turning car tricks on the street outside my site all the time

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    • #17
      That’s why you hit the gym and train in the martial arts. You can bring muscle and h2h skills with you wherever you go.

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      • #18
        It depends on your assignments and what your agency and community expects of you. If your community employed your agency to limit your actions to observing and reporting then yes you are correct. If this same combination has opted for officers who also take action, then you should follow your duty and take such action. Police and other LE agencies almost always have greater resources available for training and for locating suspects, it’s not always a lack of willpower on the part of private agencies. What I enjoyed as an LEO and as a private officer was a shared commitment to helping communities. I looked hard to find a private agency which was proactive and well rounded because personally, I wasn’t willing to standby per policy as criminal acts occurred within view, however that’s a personal choice that must be weighed heavily by each and every private officer as to what they want to focus on in their duties.

        Note that emergency communications infrastructure and LE agency staffing does not always allow for the rapid response so clearly desired, which is why a proactive approach has its value when coupled with comprehensive training, and sound doctrine that a legal department finds is fully within line of statutory/case law. I’d rather risk my life for the community and fellow officers taking an aggressor into custody than allow for innocents to be harmed whilst waiting idly by for uniformed LEOs to respond. I’m not saying that it’s required, as it’s not, but a moral choice.

        My community employed my private agency to take such risks if called for, and certaivly wouldn’t have called for off duty LEOs such as myself to be fully armed if they felt otherwise. Fire watch and checking door locks can be performed by janitorial teams, it doesn’t require special training. Observing potential surveillance teams who are planning terrorist attacks, taking suspects into custody, being able to investigate and interview people you’ve detained and from positions of advantage, and learning the law and how to apply it, now that takes special training and calls for security forces at the private and public level.
        Last edited by Amateurchef; 03-05-2019, 05:23 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Amateurchef View Post
          I’d rather risk my life for the community and fellow officers taking an aggressor into custody than allow for innocents to be harmed whilst waiting idly by for uniformed LEOs to respond. I’m not saying that it’s required, as it’s not, but a moral choice.
          I've had great luck "forcing myself" to wait idly while an aggressor harms innocents, while I record it on phone video.
          Some guy bitch slapping his girlfriend behind a dive bar, her bar-hog friend comes out saying cops are coming etc, friend approaches the 'action' and the guy gives her a decent straight-arm shove. That shove would've probably been all forgotten after the cops arrive and start sorting out the Main Event, since it didn't leave any marks, but since its on video for the cops to see it becomes ANOTHER whole new assault & battery and ANOTHER whole new "victim", RO, etc. Plus, I sure it really helped getting a few bitch slaps of the Main Event on video. Who knows, if I'd have come charging in it might have all been "mutual combat" when the cops got earful of garbage from all parties.

          I learned this from a Youtube where a guy is hiding in his house making video of his neighbor stealing stuff out of his yard. Guy explains last time he rushed out, had "words" with neighbor and called cops, but when cops came there was no real crime, since stuff never left yard, etc. Probably not wise to put Voice Over on tape that you are "deliberately allowing" the crime to continue, better to express fear of the criminal as reason for lack of normal action on your part.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Squid View Post
            I've had great luck "forcing myself" to wait idly while an aggressor harms innocents, while I record it on phone video.
            Some guy bitch slapping his girlfriend behind a dive bar, her bar-hog friend comes out saying cops are coming etc, friend approaches the 'action' and the guy gives her a decent straight-arm shove. That shove would've probably been all forgotten after the cops arrive and start sorting out the Main Event, since it didn't leave any marks, but since its on video for the cops to see it becomes ANOTHER whole new assault & battery and ANOTHER whole new "victim", RO, etc. Plus, I sure it really helped getting a few bitch slaps of the Main Event on video. Who knows, if I'd have come charging in it might have all been "mutual combat" when the cops got earful of garbage from all parties.

            I learned this from a Youtube where a guy is hiding in his house making video of his neighbor stealing stuff out of his yard. Guy explains last time he rushed out, had "words" with neighbor and called cops, but when cops came there was no real crime, since stuff never left yard, etc. Probably not wise to put Voice Over on tape that you are "deliberately allowing" the crime to continue, better to express fear of the criminal as reason for lack of normal action on your part.
            As I've said before, a security guard should NEVER approach a situation and "do nothing". Rather, they should do everything they REASONABLY, can, with what is "reasonable" depending on your training, policies, equipment and resources, etc. In addition to it being the moral thing to do (to help in whatever way you can), it will show to the courts (any anyone else) that you didn't just ignore the situation and did everything you could. You may not be able to intervene in a physical fight/assault, but you can call 911, prevent additional people from accidentally getting hurt, provide medical care to the victim afterwords, provide a good description of the attacker afterwards, liaise with the client to provide additional short-term and long-term prevention efforts, etc...

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            • #21
              Reminds me of an incident in Seattle at the transit tunnel. Fist fight broke out, and one of the guards is clearly calling 911. The other two just stood and watched, and they got heavy criticism. Even if you just shout verbal commands ("Stop right now!"), you are doing something.

              It sucks, but there is a double standard in this country. Bystanders get to stand around and film you for social media commentary, but because you are in a uniform, you are expected to intervene.

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