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Has There Been A Noticeable Anti-Police Vibe On Security Info Watch Forums Lately?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Lunch Meat View Post


    Any site that I'm working on is private property. I don't know about where you're at but around here they can't just show up on your private property without some type of explanation.

    I I spent several years working on a city contract. I pulled up to a community center one night that I was supposed to be doing checks on there was a cop sitting in the parking lot filling out a report and I asked his reason for being there. He told me that he had responded to the report of a disturbance at the community center and that's all the information he was permitted to give me.
    I told him that my company was responsible for the on-site security and I asked for his business card and the call screen number and I got them both. then I documented in my log exactly what he had said and attached the business card.

    I also had a donut eater questioning why I was parked in a parking spot marked Authorized City Vehicles only one morning. I showed her my City Contractor ID told her I was there to do a security check of the building, asked her if she had any other questions and told her to get the hell off my private property. She wasn't happy but guess who left?
    There are situations where the police don't have to give you the details of what happened. For a domestic disturbance, it would be considered that they were invited on the property by whoever called the police. Of course, since it's city property, and they (probably) work for the city, they have the same authority to access it you do.

    I don't know exactly what the parameters of the contract your company has with the city, but they probably don't want you chasing off police cars. Keep in mind that having a police car parked on site is way more detererrence than any security guard car is. Also, keep in mind that if you get into any sort of legal trouble, the company you work for is very unlikely to defend you. Chances are, friendly relations with the city and the police is worth way more to them than keeping you (or anyone else) as an employee...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Consolewatcher View Post

      There are situations where the police don't have to give you the details of what happened. For a domestic disturbance, it would be considered that they were invited on the property by whoever called the police.
      Where did you get your law degree? The Facebook School of Internet Law? The cop gave me the case number, that's all I need. If the city community center manager wanted to get the report he could request it with that case number I didn't particularly care why the cops where there as long as I accurately reported it and gathered all the information I could.

      Originally posted by Consolewatcher View Post
      Of course, since it's city property, and they (probably) work for the city, they have the same authority to access it you do.
      The community center was city property that was open to the public, subject to city rules like a park. If I find I cop there after hours I have the authority to ask him why he's there. If he's just doing paperwork great. Stay all night. It makes my job easier. If he's responding to a call , again, I have a vested interest in obtaining the case number for the city manager who has the right to know why the police were called to his facility. Donut eater > than security guard but < city manager.

      I wasn't a prick when I asked him. I explained who I was and why I was asking. I told him that I was required to account for his presence and he heard me calling it in.

      Originally posted by Consolewatcher View Post
      I don't know exactly what the parameters of the contract your company has with the city, but they probably don't want you chasing off police cars. Keep in mind that having a police car parked on site is way more detererrence than any security guard car is. Also, keep in mind that if you get into any sort of legal trouble, the company you work for is very unlikely to defend you. Chances are, friendly relations with the city and the police is worth way more to them than keeping you (or anyone else) as an employee...
      Thanks for telling me my job dude. I've only been doing it for a decade or so and I wouldn't know anything about police presence being a deterrent.

      The second facility wasn't "city property" it was private property owned by "The Town of Mayberry LLC" and was very specifically NOT open to the public. The donut eaters have no more authority to randomly show up and start questioning people there than they do at your house. As an agent of the property owner I'm not obligated to stand there and let her play "Roust the Security Guard". I had every right in the world to ask her to leave. If I filed a complaint it would have stuck and she knew it because she shut her donut hole and left.


      Last edited by Lunch Meat; 02-26-2019, 12:59 AM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
        Police get tired of guards who call them to do their (the guard's) job
        The majority of the time calling the police IS my job. Most security is observe and REPORT. If you're skateboarding in my garage and I ask you to leave and you refuse the next thing on my force continuum is "Call the cops and let them handle it."

        I would have to personally witness you committing something that I'm CERTAIN is a felony before I attempted anything else.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Consolewatcher View Post
          I don't know
          Sometimes that's the most important piece of information to have

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          • #20
            I think one of the biggest issues overall that I have seen in the security industry is guards overstepping their authority or assuming authority that they don't have, which I guess is really the same thing.

            Almost every place I've ever worked there's always that one guard (and frequently more than one) who thinks we're there to tell client employees what they're supposed to do.

            it's also been my experience that unless the client employee does something REALLY drastic the client is always going to side with their employee over a contract security guard. I actually worked on a site where a client attempted to run over a security guard because he didn't feel like showing his ID at the gate. I want to clarify this EXACTLY, the employee told the guard "Get out of my way or I'm going to run you over ." and then he pointed the car at the guard and hit the gas. The guard started to draw his gun and the client employee rethought his life choices at that point.

            To make a long story really short, a complaint was filed, the video tapes were reviewed and the guard was found to be 100% justified in his actions. The client's response was to tell the security company that " Bob's a good employee and he's been with us for 25 years so we'll talk to him and it won't happen again. " now remember in almost any jurisdiction what that employee did was was felonious assault and nobody cared.

            I said all that to say this, I do my job at work. I make the rounds I'm supposed to make, I check the doors I'm supposed to check and I'll make sure I know who's on site and who's not but if an employee breaks a rule in front of me I never confront the employee I document it and I report it but that's it. If an employee asks me if it's okay for him to take a given action on site I refer him to his supervisor, I don't make decisions like that ( most commonly it's an employee showing up with a truck load of trash that he wants to put in the company dumpster.) Again, I tell them that I have no authority one way or the other and they'll have to ask their supervisor.

            I make it a point and I tell people that I train if at all possible never make decisions. If you're unsure of what to do you find somebody higher up the food chain than you and you let them make the call. Then you document very clearly that you referred the matter to client supervisor or or Security Supervisor so and so, this is what they told me to do and I did exactly that.

            Not if but WHEN something like that comes back down the food chain to you you can pull out your log and show them that you did not make the call you did what you were told.

            So to to tie this all back into the original topic when you get a guard like that who is overstepping his bounds or walking around like a junior jack-booted thug he's going to generate bad feelings with the client, with the client's customers ( which is a sure way to find yourself guarding the wastewater treatment plant on third shift) and he's going to generate bad feelings with the local police.
            Last edited by Lunch Meat; 02-26-2019, 03:51 AM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Lunch Meat View Post

              Where did you get your law degree? The Facebook School of Internet Law? The cop gave me the case number, that's all I need. If the city community center manager wanted to get the report he could request it with that case number I didn't particularly care why the cops where there as long as I accurately reported it and gathered all the information I could.



              The community center was city property that was open to the public, subject to city rules like a park. If I find I cop there after hours I have the authority to ask him why he's there. If he's just doing paperwork great. Stay all night. It makes my job easier. If he's responding to a call , again, I have a vested interest in obtaining the case number for the city manager who has the right to know why the police were called to his facility. Donut eater > than security guard but < city manager.

              I wasn't a prick when I asked him. I explained who I was and why I was asking. I told him that I was required to account for his presence and he heard me calling it in.



              Thanks for telling me my job dude. I've only been doing it for a decade or so and I wouldn't know anything about police presence being a deterrent.

              The second facility wasn't "city property" it was private property owned by "The Town of Mayberry LLC" and was very specifically NOT open to the public. The donut eaters have no more authority to randomly show up and start questioning people there than they do at your house. As an agent of the property owner I'm not obligated to stand there and let her play "Roust the Security Guard". I had every right in the world to ask her to leave. If I filed a complaint it would have stuck and she knew it because she shut her donut hole and left.

              In the first scenario you didn't do anything wrong; you asked for details, he told you he couldn't discussed it, you gathered relevant info in case your supervisor/client wanted a followup. In the second case, the police officer (who likely works for the city, too) asked you why you were in a designated spot, which isn't an unreasonable question. If she works for the city (either directly or via an agreement between her department and the city) then she had every right to be there, and left because she had no other reason to be there, NOT because you told her to. If she had a reason to continue to stay there she likely would have ignored you.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Consolewatcher View Post

                In the first scenario you didn't do anything wrong; you asked for details, he told you he couldn't discussed it, you gathered relevant info in case your supervisor/client wanted a followup. In the second case, the police officer (who likely works for the city, too) asked you why you were in a designated spot, which isn't an unreasonable question. If she works for the city (either directly or via an agreement between her department and the city) then she had every right to be there, and left because she had no other reason to be there, NOT because you told her to. If she had a reason to continue to stay there she likely would have ignored you.


                nobody pays attention to you in the real world do they? I mean you have no idea what you're talking about and you still talk about it

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Lunch Meat View Post



                  nobody pays attention to you in the real world do they? I mean you have no idea what you're talking about and you still talk about it
                  Yes, they do. I know where I work if any of the contract guards that we pay for was caught mouthing off to a police officer, they'd be gone in a heartbeat. We need good relations with the police. Guards are a dime a dozen.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Consolewatcher View Post

                    Yes, they do. I know where I work if any of the contract guards that we pay for was caught mouthing off to a police officer, they'd be gone in a heartbeat. We need good relations with the police. Guards are a dime a dozen.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Lunch Meat View Post
                      I think one of the biggest issues overall that I have seen in the security industry is guards overstepping their authority or assuming authority that they don't have, which I guess is really the same thing.

                      Almost every place I've ever worked there's always that one guard (and frequently more than one) who thinks we're there to tell client employees what they're supposed to do.

                      it's also been my experience that unless the client employee does something REALLY drastic the client is always going to side with their employee over a contract security guard. I actually worked on a site where a client attempted to run over a security guard because he didn't feel like showing his ID at the gate. I want to clarify this EXACTLY, the employee told the guard "Get out of my way or I'm going to run you over ." and then he pointed the car at the guard and hit the gas. The guard started to draw his gun and the client employee rethought his life choices at that point.

                      To make a long story really short, a complaint was filed, the video tapes were reviewed and the guard was found to be 100% justified in his actions. The client's response was to tell the security company that " Bob's a good employee and he's been with us for 25 years so we'll talk to him and it won't happen again. " now remember in almost any jurisdiction what that employee did was was felonious assault and nobody cared.

                      I said all that to say this, I do my job at work. I make the rounds I'm supposed to make, I check the doors I'm supposed to check and I'll make sure I know who's on site and who's not but if an employee breaks a rule in front of me I never confront the employee I document it and I report it but that's it. If an employee asks me if it's okay for him to take a given action on site I refer him to his supervisor, I don't make decisions like that ( most commonly it's an employee showing up with a truck load of trash that he wants to put in the company dumpster.) Again, I tell them that I have no authority one way or the other and they'll have to ask their supervisor.

                      I make it a point and I tell people that I train if at all possible never make decisions. If you're unsure of what to do you find somebody higher up the food chain than you and you let them make the call. Then you document very clearly that you referred the matter to client supervisor or or Security Supervisor so and so, this is what they told me to do and I did exactly that.

                      Not if but WHEN something like that comes back down the food chain to you you can pull out your log and show them that you did not make the call you did what you were told.

                      So to to tie this all back into the original topic when you get a guard like that who is overstepping his bounds or walking around like a junior jack-booted thug he's going to generate bad feelings with the client, with the client's customers ( which is a sure way to find yourself guarding the wastewater treatment plant on third shift) and he's going to generate bad feelings with the local police.

                      Similar to your behavior on here: out of bounds, acting like a jack booted thug, etc. Pot calling the Kettle black, eh?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Soper View Post


                        Similar to your behavior on here: out of bounds, acting like a jack booted thug, etc. Pot calling the Kettle black, eh?
                        Kinda like you being a "moderator" here with ZERO actual authority.



                        Now go home and get your shine box.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Sure. Sure you did. "Get the hell of my property" sure... I'm guessing YOU left because the Police Officer has more rights and authority than you do on CITY property. It's not YOUR property.

                          You live in such an egocentric world, I'm just amazed you've survived this long. You tell stories about ordering cops arojnd, but it's all in your mind. You think it's such a big deal you got a business card and a CAD number? Wow. Power trip much? Those things are given out like candy to ANYONE that asks.

                          Id suggest that before you write your next "I'm such a bad-ass" BS story, you at least TRY and make it more realistic, something along the lines of..."there I was, guarding this pile of dirt...for eight hours"', you know, what is really the truth.

                          And by the way, every single time you act like a dumbass to those "doughnut eaters", they'll remember when you call for help...

                          Why are guards do damn stupid? Rhetorical, don't answer.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Soper View Post
                            Sure. Sure you did. "Get the hell of my property" sure... I'm guessing YOU left because the Police Officer has more rights and authority than you do on CITY property. It's not YOUR property.

                            You live in such an egocentric world, I'm just amazed you've survived this long. You tell stories about ordering cops arojnd, but it's all in your mind. You think it's such a big deal you got a business card and a CAD number? Wow. Power trip much? Those things are given out like candy to ANYONE that asks.

                            Id suggest that before you write your next "I'm such a bad-ass" BS story, you at least TRY and make it more realistic, something along the lines of..."there I was, guarding this pile of dirt...for eight hours"', you know, what is really the truth.

                            And by the way, every single time you act like a dumbass to those "doughnut eaters", they'll remember when you call for help...

                            Why are guards do damn stupid? Rhetorical, don't answer.
                            Blah blah blah

                            Now go home and get your shine box.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              See, out here in Free America the cops understand that they're public SERVANTS and that Citizens (their boss) have actual rights and behave accordingly.

                              One night I pulled into a substation on the east edge of town and back up to the gate to do my checks (walk around the fence and check gates and look for holes). I had time to call in my location and annotate my log and another car pulls in to the Substation.

                              I call that in and step out of my car to investigate. The driver shines a spot light in my face and gets out.

                              Now before I go further let me explain that buying used cop cars is a thing here as is assaulting security guards and taking their guns. Let me also explain that security vehicles are required to be CLEARLY marked and guards are required to wear a distinct uniform. They way I was parked the spot had my car fully illuminated and who ever was in the car KNEW I was security and who I worked for.

                              So I'm blind and I pull out my Fenix UC35 (960 lumens) and put it right in the guy's face and he goes off. He starts yelling that my light is a threat to him and I need to get it out of his face. I tell him that his light is a threat to me and I can neither see nor identify him. He decides to go badge heavy and tells me that he's a Sheriff's Deputy and that he pulled in to "investigate" my vehicle. I reply " You mean my CLEARLY MARKED SECURITY vehicle?" He starts to get badge heavy again and I remind him that he's on private property and ask if he's responding to a call for service or has a warrant. Then I remind him that it's the middle of the night and we're in the middle of no where, he made no attempt to identify himself or even turn on his overheads and that of the 2 of us I'M the one authorized to be there and acting as an agent of the property owner and that I had every right to take precautions for my safety.

                              About that time his supervisor pulls in, listens for about 2 minutes and turns to the other guy and tells him to leave NOW. I then explained to the supervisor who I was and why I was there and that he could expect to see guards at that substation every night. Then he left.

                              I'm not normally an asshole like that but there's no way that DONUT EATER didn't know who I was. He just wanted to play roust the security guard and got it handed back to him
                              Last edited by Lunch Meat; 02-28-2019, 11:05 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                This guy still talking?
                                hopefully no pets...i feel like its be animal abuse to have them listen to this guy make his head bigger than it already is.

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