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surviving edged weapons (classic police training video)

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  • #16
    Yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of theowing out a homeless person's stuff while he's asleep or left the area temporarily; that's the kind of thing that could land someone in a lot of trouble. If a person's using your property as a long-term storage, then it would likely be less of a problem (though I would suggest leaving a note telling them to remove it in x period of time or it'll be removed.

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    • #17
      9/10 a bum's bag will contain Felony illegal drugs, or at least well used Felony Drug paraphernalia with residue enough to be charged as "possession".....and.....

      no ID that would indicate its someone property besides YOURS.

      Sad fact is if a Security Guard is found with drugs in possession on duty its not gonna be a lock that "they just found it, it their job to round up such crap"....especially around 4am when everyone is a bit froggy.

      At my site we seem to have frequent police drivebys with searchlight looking for escapee from nearby Public Housing. IIRC dogs can be trained to indicate if someone recently touched an object, and off course they can detect drugs. I don't need a police dog finding a dope smelling bag in the office, then telling the cop "it belongs to this guy here", and HOPING to talk my way out of it.

      I'll throw a 1000 Bum Bags straight in the trash, and deny everything, or run over with my van, before I'd take a chance on "holding" any dope laced property for any trespassing bums.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Squid View Post
        9/10 a bum's bag will contain Felony illegal drugs, or at least well used Felony Drug paraphernalia with residue enough to be charged as "possession".....and.....

        no ID that would indicate its someone property besides YOURS.

        Sad fact is if a Security Guard is found with drugs in possession on duty its not gonna be a lock that "they just found it, it their job to round up such crap"....especially around 4am when everyone is a bit froggy.

        At my site we seem to have frequent police drivebys with searchlight looking for escapee from nearby Public Housing. IIRC dogs can be trained to indicate if someone recently touched an object, and off course they can detect drugs. I don't need a police dog finding a dope smelling bag in the office, then telling the cop "it belongs to this guy here", and HOPING to talk my way out of it.

        I'll throw a 1000 Bum Bags straight in the trash, and deny everything, or run over with my van, before I'd take a chance on "holding" any dope laced property for any trespassing bums.

        police dogs can be trained to "indicate" whether you've got anything illegal on you or not. If you have Donuts on you they'll alert every time

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Squid View Post
          9/10 a bum's bag will contain Felony illegal drugs, or at least well used Felony Drug paraphernalia with residue enough to be charged as "possession".....and.....

          no ID that would indicate its someone property besides YOURS.

          Sad fact is if a Security Guard is found with drugs in possession on duty its not gonna be a lock that "they just found it, it their job to round up such crap"....especially around 4am when everyone is a bit froggy.

          At my site we seem to have frequent police drivebys with searchlight looking for escapee from nearby Public Housing. IIRC dogs can be trained to indicate if someone recently touched an object, and off course they can detect drugs. I don't need a police dog finding a dope smelling bag in the office, then telling the cop "it belongs to this guy here", and HOPING to talk my way out of it.

          I'll throw a 1000 Bum Bags straight in the trash, and deny everything, or run over with my van, before I'd take a chance on "holding" any dope laced property for any trespassing bums.
          Something that I have reminded other security guards frequently is that we have NO legal authority to handle or possess drugs, even if we're doing for the right reasons. If we are kicking someone off our property for using drugs, assuming that they have no contractual authority to be there (such as a rental agreement) it does not matter if it actually was drugs or not.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Consolewatcher View Post

            Something that I have reminded other security guards frequently is that we have NO legal authority to handle or possess drugs, even if we're doing for the right reasons. If we are kicking someone off our property for using drugs, assuming that they have no contractual authority to be there (such as a rental agreement) it does not matter if it actually was drugs or not.
            Do they listen to you?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Consolewatcher View Post

              Something that I have reminded other security guards frequently is that we have NO legal authority to handle or possess drugs, even if we're doing for the right reasons. If we are kicking someone off our property for using drugs, assuming that they have no contractual authority to be there (such as a rental agreement) it does not matter if it actually was drugs or not.
              I've known two diff guys that were arrested on public sidewalk at bus stop by private Security employed by adjacent mall for smoking a joint. IIRC you can do a "citizen's arrest" for any crime in your presence, including things that "don't involve you".

              IIRC its not uncommon for Company Goons to ARREST an employee found with drugs on company property, and have cops come collect them off property, and that had to do with Company Liability.

              That was back in the 1980s when all the Silicon Valley guys were doing way too much blow. Some guy got fired, and they took his stash, so first thing he does is go racing to his dealers house in his 280Z and crashes into a soccer mom and kids. Came out that Company KNEW he was on drugs, and since he normally didn't walk to work they also knew he'd be Driving On Drugs.


              During 1st Training class it was drilled into us 6 or 7 diff ways that as guards, even if client directs us and says things like "I'll take responsibility" we cannot do any RETRIEVAL of STOLEN property, no matter how obvious, not even if its sitting in back of open pickup.

              On the other hand, a property owner has right to remove stuff left on his property without permission and maybe a very limited duty to be "reasonable", which IMO only includes "holding" it in the dumpster till next pickup, and certainly no duty to sort out who owns what. Property Owner DOES have duty to mitigate "danger to public" including keeping grounds free of bad things.

              Just don't "take" something from someone. As far as you are concerned everything is abandoned and you have no knowledge of any owners. If a bum leaves a bag and you toss it, then bum comes back and they call cops and you admit you know it was "his bag" I'm guessing cop will be boxed into going all in for the bum against you.
              Last edited by Squid; 01-13-2019, 03:01 PM.

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              • #22
                That bag from that bum has been found to be private property by the Courts, you and the police can’t just toss it out without resulting legal claims, which you WILL lose.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Soper View Post
                  That bag from that bum has been found to be private property by the Courts, you and the police can’t just toss it out without resulting legal claims, which you WILL lose.
                  Prove "I" tossed it out.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Soper View Post
                    That bag from that bum has been found to be private property by the Courts, you and the police can’t just toss it out without resulting legal claims, which you WILL lose.
                    correct, and thats why companies that run those parking lot sweeper trucks send out registered letters after fingerprinting each fast food cup or soda can they sweep up....then hold every thing for 6 weeks.

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                    • #25
                      Well, I apologize for taking this thread off track (although I'll throw Squid under the bus since he technically started it). I'll make one last comment, since I deal with it all the time. Yes, Seattle makes a big deal about how when they bulldoze an illegal encampment they save the valuables and the people can come to a central warehouse and claim their stuff. (You couldn't pay me enough to be the property clerk there.) Soper is correct that private property owners cannot just throw stuff out without some effort to save and reunite items to their owners.

                      Here's the deal - the sheer volume of junk and contaminated items is mind boggling. I really think private property owners have a right to just toss stuff if they can articulate that storing it and waiting for an owner to show up is a burden or hazard on them. Just my opinion. "Now back to your regular programming, already in progress."

                      http://mynorthwest.com/791999/thousa...rett-seattle/?

                      https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...g-in-vehicles/

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
                        Well, I apologize for taking this thread off track (although I'll throw Squid under the bus since he technically started it). I'll make one last comment, since I deal with it all the time. Yes, Seattle makes a big deal about how when they bulldoze an illegal encampment they save the valuables and the people can come to a central warehouse and claim their stuff. (You couldn't pay me enough to be the property clerk there.) Soper is correct that private property owners cannot just throw stuff out without some effort to save and reunite items to their owners.

                        Here's the deal - the sheer volume of junk and contaminated items is mind boggling. I really think private property owners have a right to just toss stuff if they can articulate that storing it and waiting for an owner to show up is a burden or hazard on them. Just my opinion. "Now back to your regular programming, already in progress."

                        http://mynorthwest.com/791999/thousa...rett-seattle/?

                        https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...g-in-vehicles/
                        I wouldn't say "don't throw it out", but rather "cover your ass". Firstly, don't throw it out unless the post orders permit you to, or you have permission from your company/client (written form is preferred). Secondly, I would make efforts to show to anyone involved (the owner of the stuff, the police, the courts, "citizen journalists", etc.. that I made reasonable efforts to locate the owner of the item(s) and communicate with them that they should not leave the items there. This may involve saying out loud "DOES THIS STUFF BELONG TO ANYONE?", and then putting a note on the stuff that it is going to be moved, waiting a few hours (or overnight) and then moving it.

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