Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

what new regs should and CAN we lobby for to boost pay?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Squid
    replied
    Originally posted by Consolewatcher View Post
    I
    I think that if security is going to grow as an industry, it needs to put less focus on things that are outside of its industry *cough* law enforcement *cough* and focus more on ensuring that its personnel are more skilled in the things that are part of the industry, such as alarm systems.
    Fact is Security is growing fast due to ever increasing demand for privatized AKA "do what client wants, not what some Sociologist policy wanker wants" Security that, if not actual Law Enforcement via Citizen Arrests for "quality of life" crimes (like smoking dope at bus stop outside the mall), is clearly doing the same job Police are SUPPOSED to be doing (handling real dirtbags that threaten normal people's daily lives).

    I'm constantly seeing (mostly armed) guards were they didn't exist before. Gas station mini-stores, supermarkets, movie theaters, and last but not least Public Parks. Some of this seems to do more harm than good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9YdML8PPw&t=76s

    Other deployments doing much better. They've pushed hoods and thugs out of the neighborhood (and into surrounding cities lol). https://www.mercurynews.com/2013/03/...oakland-hills/


    Leave a comment:


  • Consolewatcher
    replied
    I think that Squid's idea of guards learning about their alarm system, etc. is a good one, assuming that the company and client have given it prior approval.

    I think that if security is going to grow as an industry, it needs to put less focus on things that are outside of its industry *cough* law enforcement *cough* and focus more on ensuring that its personnel are more skilled in the things that are part of the industry, such as alarm systems. I also think that if security guards want to be able to demand higher wages, they should focus on gaining the skills and experience in the "non-guarding" aspects of security.

    Leave a comment:


  • Condo Guard
    replied
    I think a basic understanding of fire and life systems, and site specific training is a must. I understand Lunch Meat's point - we've all met "that guy," who thinks he's the expert on computers, alarm systems and elevators, and ends up mucking things up and bringing down the wrath of management. On the other hand, there's no reason to call the security director at 3:00am if you understand a certain trouble alarm is common to the system, is not putting anything at risk, and you are OK to silence it, log it, and have the tech come out during the day.

    Higher end companies and industry associations need to do a better job raising client expectations too. I've worked too many places where sleeping guards, lazy guards and incompetent guards just get transferred - but the client keeps the same company, or hires another warm body co., expecting different results. Higher expectations and higher pay would eventually lead to change in all (hopefully).

    Leave a comment:


  • Squid
    replied
    Originally posted by Lunch Meat View Post

    Double plus ungood if the security system ever fails in such a way that the client incurs a loss after you messed it the first thing the client and the alarm vendor is going to do is blame you for the failure.

    I stay in my lane.
    meh, I've worked sites where it was the ESL janitor's job to fix the sensors, after rain, after wind, after frost, after no reason at all. It was understood the system was just part of overall program, trying to play the odds.

    I'm not so much talking about high end jewelry store, just your average building with legacy system.

    But mostly would be nice that when you make one of those 3am phone calls to client you can say something besides "alarm making noise, thats all I know". Be nice to know how to reset and what might give false pos, how to quickly replace suspect sensor, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lunch Meat
    replied
    Originally posted by Squid View Post
    Better idea might be to get educated on finer points of common alarm systems, so Client doesn't have to call another vendor for on site visit at $100/pop if a sensor acts up.
    Double plus ungood if the security system ever fails in such a way that the client incurs a loss after you messed it the first thing the client and the alarm vendor is going to do is blame you for the failure.

    I stay in my lane.

    Leave a comment:


  • Squid
    replied
    As a last resort, maybe something that would actually bring more value to Client.

    I've got no personal prob with doing janitor's work at your typical "nothing ever happens" site, if its not too much and would "tie you up" so bad guys know where you gonna be for an hour. IMO methodically emptying trash and generally poking around in trash is best place to start in Lost Prevention because trash is #1 way people can think they are smart and sneak items out.

    Only prob is that gets most employers thinking "So, I guess I should pay Guards same as lazy janitor".

    Better idea might be to get educated on finer points of common alarm systems, so Client doesn't have to call another vendor for on site visit at $100/pop if a sensor acts up.

    In CA I've worked with guys who got unarmed Guard Card but couldn't get Gun Permit due to prior conviction for Attempted Murder. Maybe that could be tighten up a little, but that would be going against the grain in CA where they are passing new laws to protect criminals from having to disclose records for employment.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lunch Meat
    replied
    I've worked on several sites where the post orders explicitly stated that the only medical aid a guard was allowed to render was calling 911 IF a Supervisor approved it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Squid
    replied
    Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
    You're on the right track. Basic CPR / first aid. Conflict resolution skills (something like Verbal Judo), and you have to pass a test on it. Basic English competency - I know, that's not PC, but how the heck do you communicate with 911 or emergency services if you don't have basic language skills?


    IIRC the required written test is in English but I've also seen "Trainers" hand out the answers, bit by bit, under the theory as long as they pass one way or another all that counts is at some point they knew the answers.

    Issue with CPR/First Aid is does the Client's UNDERWRITER want marginal people trying to do it to random people, or do they just want a 911 call? "Exceeding Orders" is a bigger issue than "under performing" once actually on site and in right location for most Guards.

    I'm pretty sure 911 has the major languages covered, or at least has some phrases like "wait a minute while we find a XXX speaker".....

    its the Guard VS public I'm worried about.

    Leave a comment:


  • SoCalGuard
    replied
    The best way to increase the pay for the security industry is to mandate more training and have resources to regulate the industry. In my state of California, it only takes 40 hours of training to become a guard. The industry should demand at least 160 hours of professional training (one month) to get a license to be a security guard. Also California has a major problem with sleazy security companies operating without following the rules, more tax money should be thrown at the regulatory agency to fine and/or shutdown these companies.

    Leave a comment:


  • Condo Guard
    replied
    Hazard pay would be an issue because the guard co. would essentially be admitting the site was dangerous - and I notice they don't like doing that. One of the guard companies I worked for had everything from routine patrols with low risk to some flat out dangerous gigs (i.e. hospital emergency rooms / pysch wards). They never matched trained S/Os to the job, just moved the warm bodies around like chess pieces, claiming all the sites were low risk.

    It would be nice if contract companies were required to have a tier system and certain sites would be required to have a level 2 or 3 security officer, as opposed to the guy that just got out of orientation class a half hour ago. The two biggest obstacles are clients who want to do everything the cheapest way possible, and state license departments that don't see any need to oversee the industry other than just making sure they're current on their payroll taxes and don't hire felons. (The last one being kind of hit and miss depending on your state.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Lunch Meat
    replied
    Originally posted by Lone Wolf View Post

    Because this job is hazardous. I swear, do you argue just for the sake of arguing?
    Has he actually ever posted a post that contributes to the discussion instead of just being insulting and rude to people?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lunch Meat
    replied
    Originally posted by Lone Wolf View Post

    Because this job is hazardous. I swear, do you argue just for the sake of arguing? We, as an industry, are undertrained, unarmed, and lack backup. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. So we are on our own to fend for ourselves and our sites. I think that deserves extra pay, don’t you?

    There was a guard up in Denver who got murdered trying to kick a homeless person out of a parking garage last year. That's one of the reasons I don't escalate with people. If I have to ask somebody to leave property I ask them one time and then I call the police.

    I mean I'm armed and I am an observe and report guard. Primarily, because I don't think my company would back me. Based on the company culture I am absolutely convinced that if my sidearm ever comes out of the holster I'm unemployed the INSTANT it breaks leather.

    If I get killed my wife is going to get whatever workers comp pays for an on the job death and double indemnity from my life insurance policy and that's it.

    if I'm permanently disabled I don't get the state employee pension. Again, I get whatever workers comp pays and SSI. If I see somebody committing an actual crime on my site (I don't care if they kill each other outside the fence) I keep an eye on them and I call the cops

    Leave a comment:


  • Lunch Meat
    replied
    Originally posted by Soper View Post

    What does the 2A have to do with someone illegally using a Weapon? Why should security guards get “hazard” pay?
    The concept of Hazard pay isn't that far out there.

    A security guard that sitting at the front desk of a major corporation essentially acting as a receptionist doesn't have a job that's as dangerous as a guy who's working in a parking garage and whose job is to deal with drunks and homeless Tweakers all night additionally spends most of his shift outdoors in the cold.

    I think a guard who's in a position that routinely requires him to enforce policies that bring him into direct conflict with client customers should make a little bit more.

    if I'm sitting in an office somewhere looking at security monitors and C *Cure should I make as much as a guy who's wondering is this the time somebody's going to rob me every time he gets out of the armored car.


    I do agree however that the Second Amendment has zero bearing on the illegal use of firearms by criminals
    Last edited by Lunch Meat; 01-01-2019, 11:12 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lone Wolf
    replied
    Originally posted by Soper View Post

    What does the 2A have to do with someone illegally using a Weapon? Why should security guards get “hazard” pay?
    Because this job is hazardous. I swear, do you argue just for the sake of arguing? We, as an industry, are undertrained, unarmed, and lack backup. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. So we are on our own to fend for ourselves and our sites. I think that deserves extra pay, don’t you?

    Leave a comment:


  • Soper
    replied
    Originally posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    Hazard pay, for one. I don’t what country everyone is from, but here in the US we have the 2nd amendment. Each encounter on the job could be your last.
    What does the 2A have to do with someone illegally using a Weapon? Why should security guards get “hazard” pay?

    Leave a comment:

Leaderboard

Collapse
Working...
X