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  • When terminations happen, and then walked away.

    Hello all. It has been a long while since I posted on here. I ran into a dilemma just today and thought I would ask here about opinions on it.

    So I work for a local security municipality. Today we had administration terminate an employee that required police intervention (to what degree is beyond me). We had a feeling something was up because PD made contact with us in our main lobby. At the time we had zero clue what was going on. Fast forward about an hour(pd has left about 30 minutes prior) and we had our director come down and inform a few of our guards to keep an eye out for a recently terminated employee attempting to return. I just happened to walk in on the discussion and inquired as to what’s going on. When I took the director off to the side and inquired as to what was the nature of the termination, all he would say is that he’d rather not say, and then walked away.

    I feel as though, being security, we should have been first to be notified of a termination, especially one involving the police. The fact that 1. We weren’t given a heads up on the termination and 2. What he was being terminated for or the severity of the termination, is a complete lack of respect for our security department and is really doing a disservice to not only our employees in other departments but the general public inhabiting our building as well. This employee was being terminated and administration felt the need to inform PD before the firing, but never bothered to tell us until after the fact.

    Would this be something that sits with you in this situation?

    edit: not sure what happened to the title there. I just noticed it. Lol. Wasn’t meant to read that way.
    Last edited by c0187; 11-17-2018, 09:36 AM.

  • #2
    first off, what the hell is a "local security municipality"?

    I agree with you in this case.

    While its part of the job to be "treated like a Mushroom" about things that are now "water under the bridge", not giving you info to help you do your job limits your ability.

    Since this guy MIGHT have been fired for bringing a gun and attempted mass murder, you need to PROTECT YOURSELF if you see him again. To me, that means hiding yourself, take off uniform, leaving site if possible, and then maybe calling cop. However, review the famous before deciding if you should "talk to the police". While I can't ref any case of the caller getting in trouble for calling the cops, I have had cops tow a neighbor's exp tags car after calling cops on completely unrelated matter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

    I don't see why you think you weren't informed. If cops required that means no one knew it was gonna happen, and 30mins is PDQ for any semi-legal communication to employees.

    Remember that your boss could be sued or charged under weird labor law if he says wrong things about ex-employees.

    9/10 it was Drugs At Work.

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    • #3
      Well, this breaks the movie stereotype of security escorting people out of the building... I worked one place where they were constantly letting people go (high pressure sales - don't make your quota, you're out). No matter how the termination went, we would get a photo the day after and the ominous "Do Not Let On Property / Notify VP Immediately." We were never notified in advance, even if it was for drugs / harassment / stealing, etc.

      PD may have a policy not to communicate with security unless you are absolutely needed. Don't take it personally. The officer(s) may have felt they had it under control and there wasn't a need to get you involved. While your director can't tell you the details of the termination, he should have advised you if there were threats made, weapon found or implied, etc.

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      • #4
        While not commenting on Squid's comments directly, yes, you should review Active Shooter policy at your company and site. FEMA has a pretty good general guide on their website; you can download the PDF for free.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
          Well, this breaks the movie stereotype of security escorting people out of the building... I worked one place where they were constantly letting people go (high pressure sales - don't make your quota, you're out). No matter how the termination went, we would get a photo the day after and the ominous "Do Not Let On Property / Notify VP Immediately." We were never notified in advance, even if it was for drugs / harassment / stealing, etc.

          PD may have a policy not to communicate with security unless you are absolutely needed. Don't take it personally. The officer(s) may have felt they had it under control and there wasn't a need to get you involved. While your director can't tell you the details of the termination, he should have advised you if there were threats made, weapon found or implied, etc.
          Well the rules are a bit different for a government building, at least here in AZ. Since I work for a municipality, PD is actually supposed to disclose the reason they are entering the building. They don’t always disclose and we don’t always ask, unless it is for something serious happening on the property. We help them out by locating individuals they are searching for, either via camera searches or word of mouth, and they help us out by providing backup when needed. It’s always been that mutual understanding. It is quite possible these officers were either from a different precinct, were brand new, or just assumed we knew why they were there.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Squid View Post
            first off, what the hell is a "local security municipality"?

            I agree with you in this case.

            While its part of the job to be "treated like a Mushroom" about things that are now "water under the bridge", not giving you info to help you do your job limits your ability.

            Since this guy MIGHT have been fired for bringing a gun and attempted mass murder, you need to PROTECT YOURSELF if you see him again. To me, that means hiding yourself, take off uniform, leaving site if possible, and then maybe calling cop. However, review the famous before deciding if you should "talk to the police". While I can't ref any case of the caller getting in trouble for calling the cops, I have had cops tow a neighbor's exp tags car after calling cops on completely unrelated matter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

            I don't see why you think you weren't informed. If cops required that means no one knew it was gonna happen, and 30mins is PDQ for any semi-legal communication to employees.

            Remember that your boss could be sued or charged under weird labor law if he says wrong things about ex-employees.

            9/10 it was Drugs At Work.
            Lol. I reworded that wrong. I work for a city municipality. I am a municipal security guard.

            Comment


            • #7
              Generally speaking security guards aren't briefed on the entirety of the situation, they're briefed on what management believes they need to know in order to do their jobs. As for why the police were called, there could have been various reasons. It could have been because they feared the person would become violent (remember, most security guards are not trained or equipped to deal with violent individuals), maybe the person had committed a crime and the police had to be notified, etc..

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Consolewatcher View Post
                Generally speaking security guards aren't briefed on the entirety of the situation, they're briefed on what management believes they need to know in order to do their jobs. As for why the police were called, there could have been various reasons. It could have been because they feared the person would become violent (remember, most security guards are not trained or equipped to deal with violent individuals), maybe the person had committed a crime and the police had to be notified, etc..
                My exp, particularly in Public Sector which this seems to be, is that Security will be told only what is required for Management not to lose THEIR jobs.

                Govt workers might spend most of day gossiping among their clique, but tend to be more "professional" to anyone outside. You don't get fired for low output, you can only get fired for doing something "wrong". Its every Govt slug's worst nightmare to be fingered as the one who wrongfully leaked or spread rumors and its goes public.

                On one hand you got all the Indians who want nothing but more workplace gossip, then you got Chiefs who want it to be like it never happened since they got quarterly targets to meet etc.

                "why the police were called" Again, sounds like minor recreational drug use or being High At Work. IIRC, being HAW give employer a reason to summon cops to remove from property, and that in turn give employer lots of clout against any pesky lawsuits. A Govt supervisor will think "I'm not qualified to tell if someone is on drugs, I'm not even qualified to know what dank Skunk Bud smells like on a Rasta Man." LAST TIME I went through Govt HR hiring they brought up Drugs, and that you should tell anyone taking drugs to stop. Some wise-ass asked "How would we know? What would they be doing that we'd know WASN"T NORMAL FOR WORKERS AROUND HERE???" and the HR lady couldn't give a single hint. I don't think the cops take you away if your supervisor "fears" you will become violent. They might "stand by". Theft not really an issue for low level Govt office drones. Most theft done by upper level via fraudulent contracts.

                To The Law, a 64yr old granny who took one puff on homegrown MJ joint 7 hours prior is far more dangerous than a steroid infected NFL sized psycho who had his prior dozen rapes and attempted murders quashed because he was under 18 and is now 19.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by c0187 View Post

                  Well the rules are a bit different for a government building, at least here in AZ. Since I work for a municipality, PD is actually supposed to disclose the reason they are entering the building. They don’t always disclose and we don’t always ask, unless it is for something serious happening on the property. We help them out by locating individuals they are searching for, either via camera searches or word of mouth, and they help us out by providing backup when needed. It’s always been that mutual understanding. It is quite possible these officers were either from a different precinct, were brand new, or just assumed we knew why they were there.
                  Since your management obviously knew why the police were there, then the police did disclose the reason they were entering the building. They just didn't disclose it to you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Security guards are notorious for "spilling the beans".
                    No issue there about not telling you. HR laws also require confidentiality and no, just because you are a guard doesn't include you beyond what you were told. You get told what you need to know.

                    Squids BS replies are just that, BS. He's never worked in any public sector.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Soper View Post
                      Security guards are notorious for "spilling the beans".
                      No issue there about not telling you. HR laws also require confidentiality and no, just because you are a guard doesn't include you beyond what you were told. You get told what you need to know.

                      Squids BS replies are just that, BS. He's never worked in any public sector.
                      "HR laws also require confidentiality"??? Please link to law that would prevent telling guards why an employee was fired. If Law doesn't directly mention, link to any case where it came into play.

                      Here is a private firm I worked for with a Public Sector client. This was on Park land in public lot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9YdML8PPw

                      Done several gigs for firms hired by County Fairs. Can't remember last time I did construction work on a private sector job, except homes of billionaires (who all got rich via Govt lol). Been working directly for major city's "Works Dept" for last year, driving city truck, city check, etc, doing quasi-security related duties. I've talked to cops maybe 6 times in last two weeks for job related stuff. Woman got shot, shooter still at large in area, had cops evict homeless from city property, etc.

                      Where I work the City will always "lay off" a worker but doesn't seem to be any prohibition on telling real reason they were fired. In fact, seems to be general practice so others will know how not to get "laid off".
                      Last edited by Squid; 11-23-2018, 05:48 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Squid View Post

                        "HR laws also require confidentiality"??? Please link to law that would prevent telling guards why an employee was fired. If Law doesn't directly mention, link to any case where it came into play.

                        Here is a private firm I worked for with a Public Sector client. This was on Park land in public lot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9YdML8PPw

                        Done several gigs for firms hired by County Fairs. Can't remember last time I did construction work on a private sector job, except homes of billionaires (who all got rich via Govt lol). Been working directly for major city's "Works Dept" for last year, driving city truck, city check, etc, doing quasi-security related duties. I've talked to cops maybe 6 times in last two weeks for job related stuff. Woman got shot, shooter still at large in area, had cops evict homeless from city property, etc.

                        Where I work the City will always "lay off" a worker but doesn't seem to be any prohibition on telling real reason they were fired. In fact, seems to be general practice so others will know how not to get "laid off".
                        That isn't the same as public sector employment.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TOII View Post

                          That isn't the same as public sector employment.
                          currently working as City employee, in one of the most rabidly Democrat civil service cities in USA. I'm in the Belly of the Beast. I've see Civil Service malfeasance daily with would make Soper wet his pants.

                          Which MONTH(hint, hint) is 'special' in any city office and why???

                          Why don't I quit? I've got a sick sense of humor. I want to see how far this goes.

                          Plus, even though I'm a "worker", working as a city employee I can do lots of little errands during working hours that I've never been able to get away with anywhere else.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tpeaHXusYk

                          Last edited by Squid; 11-24-2018, 02:13 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Soper View Post
                            Security guards are notorious for "spilling the beans".
                            No issue there about not telling you. HR laws also require confidentiality and no, just because you are a guard doesn't include you beyond what you were told. You get told what you need to know.

                            Squids BS replies are just that, BS. He's never worked in any public sector.
                            Why are you being so hostile?

                            Comment

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