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CALIFORINA ending cash Bail! (and is this an "oppertunity" for Security?)

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  • CALIFORINA ending cash Bail! (and is this an "oppertunity" for Security?)

    Because I know its sure an opportunity for judges to take bribes.

    IIRC, unless something really weird is going on, the Bail set by a judge goes by "guidelines". Noted Criminal Defense lawyer told me "All these new judges are same, they come in thinking they are gonna be tough but then they find out that means a lot more work when their stuff gets appealed and (forget term but whatever you do when judge veers outside guidelines).

    Article seems to say new law will leave "middle ground" up to judges.

    What I see missing is any "middle ground" practice. No mention of Ankle Bracelets (shouldn't there be a good slang term for those?) or Half-Way Houses (so far not used in awaiting trial cases) or any other sort of Check In or Home Visit programs.

    So I'm thinking, for Private Security, there might be a YUGE new (and sudden) opportunity for someone other than already burdened LEOs or P.O.s to do various levels of Monitoring Of Releasees.

    IIRC Ankles were something the Releasee paid for, but if it would be cheaper for Jail to pay for Ankle than Jail then maybe that would happen.

    Only thing that really matters is if CA State will pay County Jails for coming up with reasons to hold people in Jail. Used to be County lost money on Jail and would release anyone unless there was a real risk, then CA started paying Counties and suddenly Bail went up and judges got "tough on crime" and everyone was getting held.

    Naturally, all the Bail Bonds guys are very much against letting people out of jail without them taking a YUGE cut. Funny, all their ads were about "we want you out of jail", now they are "CRIMINALS BEING RELEASED...PUBLIC IN DANGER!"

    THAT could also be a great opportunity to SELL private security, particularly for stuff like Private Residential Patrols for upscale communities that are giving up on their Civil Service police. Not sure about HOME break ins but GTA is considered "non violent" in CA.




    https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/...nter-the-left/

  • #2
    What it is about is governments understanding that with large tax cuts and corporate welfare, they won't have money in the future for new jails. Hence, you just let petty criminals cycle through the system, but don't house them. (Or, you can do what Seattle did and redefine which property crimes are felonies, and let citizens and businesses suffer the consequences.)

    Nobody cares about bail bondsmen - they aren't a large enough or powerful enough voting base to matter. And no, this is not an opportunity for private security - our industry can barely function well doing basic night watchman duties; trying to become social workers or parole officers is outside the wheelhouse of Securitas and others.
    Last edited by Condo Guard; 10-21-2018, 04:02 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
      trying to become social workers or parole officers is outside the wheelhouse of Securitas and others.
      Modesto, CA ("American Graffiti") has a private security firm authorized by the police and sent to answer VD calls (and make arrests), crack skulls of bums at strip-malls, issue traffic tickets(speeding, etc) and show up in court just like cops for all those cases. I've know two guys who worked that gig. Sounds like "Lord of the Flies".

      IIRC some town in TX does similar.

      No idea what the "legal framework" is that lets city and PD unleash "the kids" on the public.

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      • #4
        Do you know the company? I did a quick search, couldn't find anything on it. Not calling you out; I'm actually curious. Not to be the broken record, but I am seeing real evidence of "de-policing" in my region, either due to meddling politicians or lack of resources. While I know of "limited commissions" for security officers (usually private security working federal contracts), I have very mixed feelings about this as a solution to municipal problems.

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        • #5
          So basically California is becoming like us here in Canada. Up here, we have cash bail, but the legal system recognizes that everyone should have an equal ability to post bail. If the accused has $50 in his bank account you can expect to see bail set at $20.

          I don't know how it would work with lengthy American sentences, though. Here a person on a drug charge might face a year or two in jail so there's not a whole lot of reason for them to abscond. Do we really expect a person facing, say, ten years in prison to show up in court?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
            Do you know the company? I did a quick search, couldn't find anything on it. Not calling you out; I'm actually curious. Not to be the broken record, but I am seeing real evidence of "de-policing" in my region, either due to meddling politicians or lack of resources. While I know of "limited commissions" for security officers (usually private security working federal contracts), I have very mixed feelings about this as a solution to municipal problems.
            can't remember name, but they were only paying about $13/hr. Firm was owned by former MPD chief.

            I didn't see anything either. Maybe program ended (and memory holed). program was active about a year ago, and had CL ads. I might have posted one.

            My surprise was that it got past the Police Union. I'd have expected Cop Union legal muscle to flood in from entire State at least.
            Last edited by Squid; 10-23-2018, 12:11 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Squid View Post

              Modesto, CA ("American Graffiti") has a private security firm authorized by the police and sent to answer VD calls (and make arrests), crack skulls of bums at strip-malls, issue traffic tickets(speeding, etc) and show up in court just like cops for all those cases. I've know two guys who worked that gig. Sounds like "Lord of the Flies".

              IIRC some town in TX does similar.

              No idea what the "legal framework" is that lets city and PD unleash "the kids" on the public.
              More BS.
              Have you EVER not embellished or made up things? No.

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              • #8
                Couldn't find anything on TX either. Closest was a "town" back east that was originally a private community; they incorporated for tax reasons and essentially deputized their security department. (They were not experiencing very serious crimes.)

                I know I've told the story from the early '90s of the business assoc. in Seattle that hired private security to get tough with the petty crooks that failed to get the message when the joke "security concierge" program failed. The problem was that Seattle PD kept getting complaints about their officers being too rough with people when it turned out to be the private guards. The program was canned.

                I don't understand how people can think any of this is a good idea. Lower bail for small crimes is OK, but the point of bail is to give the accused an incentive to show up for their hearing or trial. No wonder the cops may be frustrated; the "revolving door" just got bigger and faster...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
                  Couldn't find anything on TX either. Closest was a "town" back east that was originally a private community; they incorporated for tax reasons and essentially deputized their security d.
                  I'll call MPD and maybe even local paper when I get a chance.

                  I'm surprised the "story" hasn't gotten national attention, especially due to "American Graffiti" connection.
                  Last edited by Squid; 10-25-2018, 12:58 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Squid View Post

                    Modesto, CA ("American Graffiti") has a private security firm authorized by the police and sent to answer VD calls (and make arrests), crack skulls of bums at strip-malls, issue traffic tickets(speeding, etc) and show up in court just like cops for all those cases. I've know two guys who worked that gig. Sounds like "Lord of the Flies".

                    IIRC some town in TX does similar.

                    No idea what the "legal framework" is that lets city and PD unleash "the kids" on the public.
                    I don’t think any legal framework exists for what you are describing. California Penal Code is very strict on who is a peace officer and who has the authority of a peace officer. I have worked for some California security companies who have contracts with local police and sheriffs, but nothing in the law would allow for a non-peace officer to have general law enforcement authority. The contracts I have worked did involve dispatching us private security folks for non-law enforcement duties like prisoner transport, visual presence, and waiting by cars to get towed.
                    http://firearmsnerd.com/

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SoCalGuard View Post

                      I don’t think any legal framework exists for what you are describing. California Penal Code is very strict on who is a peace officer and who has the authority of a peace officer. I have worked for some California security companies who have contracts with local police and sheriffs, but nothing in the law would allow for a non-peace officer to have general law enforcement authority. The contracts I have worked did involve dispatching us private security folks for non-law enforcement duties like prisoner transport, visual presence, and waiting by cars to get towed.
                      That is what I thought when I heard, especially the traffic tickets and showing up in court for tickets. Worked with a guy that did Great America security and says the enforced traffic in parking lot but not sure how that worked.

                      State park hired private security to patrol because no Rangers yet, but again only non-LEO powers.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9YdML8PPw&t=34s

                      Then again, I've known guys who were arrested by Mall Cops OFF mall property at bus stop for smoking a joint, so I guess you could hire Security and direct them to a DV call and depending they could make an arrest.

                      I'll try Modesto PD business phone(not expecting much), and maybe some Modesto or nearby Security during biz hours.

                      I was kinda impressed with next door Ceres PD during my visit. Car got stolen, then returned direct from cops without big tow fee BS. And one Ceres PD got in trouble for filming up-skirt crotch shots of a civil female PD employee (NAACP involved), and another Ceres cop in trouble for a brutal kick to the groin of handcuffed home invasion suspect.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
                        What it is about is governments understanding that with large tax cuts and corporate welfare, they won't have money in the future for new jails. Hence, you just let petty criminals cycle through the system, but don't house them. (Or, you can do what Seattle did and redefine which property crimes are felonies, and let citizens and businesses suffer the consequences.)

                        Nobody cares about bail bondsmen - they aren't a large enough or powerful enough voting base to matter. And no, this is not an opportunity for private security - our industry can barely function well doing basic night watchman duties; trying to become social workers or parole officers is outside the wheelhouse of Securitas and others.
                        Actually in some states, securitas and allied barton or whatever they are now already run private police agencies. Add that to private corrections and I can see a market for private parole, Not that I think they should, just that they could. Security in California these days is generally all but pointless unfortunately.
                        Last edited by TOII; 11-01-2018, 02:37 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Please post the states and agencies that are providing full law enforcement services via security guard companies. Not bases, labs, private communities, etc. Cities, towns.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
                            What it is about is governments understanding that with large tax cuts and corporate welfare, they won't have money in the future for new jails. Hence, you just let petty criminals cycle through the system, but don't house them. (Or, you can do what Seattle did and redefine which property crimes are felonies, and let citizens and businesses suffer the consequences.)

                            Nobody cares about bail bondsmen - they aren't a large enough or powerful enough voting base to matter. And no, this is not an opportunity for private security - our industry can barely function well doing basic night watchman duties; trying to become social workers or parole officers is outside the wheelhouse of Securitas and others.
                            worked on new Mule Creek State Prison, AKA Jerry Brown State University. Among interesting features are about 50+ft ceilings in cell blocks. Not where guards with guns look down but at the far end towards outside, for no reason other than maybe future indoor drone dog fights. You literally could not spend more money on a prison. Guards from existing side said new prison will require much more staffing due to design.

                            Some upscale communities such as Oakland HILLS are hiring private security because cops can't or wont do the job. They have tried writing blank check after blank check to police Union for last 40yrs and all that happens is cops come up with more reasons not to do their job. IFAIK its been a great success, and amazingly cost effective. IIRC some residents of Alameda blame the program for pushing the hoods into their town. While Alameda is an island, IMO wouldn't lend itself as well to Community Security Patrol because its a grid w/retail, apts, etc VS few long winding streets with gated driveways.

                            Big diff between Security and Police is Security can hire new people of any qualification and talent instantly with zero "transaction friction" whereas Police are pretty much stuck trying to "teach old dog new tricks" or more aptly "put lipstick on a pig". It took YEARS for Police Depts to get anyone who had a clue about any Computer Crime, and its still a joke. Sure Security tends to be a "job of last resort" and Warm Body is "lowest common denominator" but CAN still bring in "hired gun".

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Soper View Post
                              Please post the states and agencies that are providing full law enforcement services via security guard companies. Not bases, labs, private communities, etc. Cities, towns.
                              You need to work on Reading Comprehension (and avoid signing any contracts without a trusted friend "helping" you LOL).

                              He didn't say any "Cities, towns" had a private firm doing "full LES". He said "agencies" and IMO he means stuff like Rail Road Police.

                              BTW, I'm not finding any confirmation of Modesto using private firm to do typical police duties, MPD wont return calls, a few Modesto firms say they don't know (but not sure if they are really Modesto). Will keep checking. But heard same basic story from TWO completely diff Modesto based guards I met at diff other firms.

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