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  • Security Guard Fired for refusing to assist Police Officer

    Houston, TX – The security guard seen standing idly by as she filmed a Houston police officer fighting for his life has been fired from her job.

    “Help me!” the officer yelled to her, as the combative suspect grabbed for his duty weapon during the Monday altercation outside a Greenville gas station. “Stop f--king filming and help me!”


    https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesmat...E-l7i2lsV9vvA/

    What a freaking disgrace. She seems to be carrying a taser and handcuffs which I don't know why she didn't use to help the Officer. Stuff like this is what gives this industry a bad name. And supposedly her grandson tried to defend her by saying that she didn't have training for this. Wow.


  • #2
    "her" and "grandson". Do the math. this is a GRANDMA. not sure if she lacks "training" but she certainly lacks physical conditioning.

    IMO she did exactly right thing. IMO suspect will be less likely to continue fighting cops if they know another person is watching, calling 911, and filming.

    not her job to help cops in fight. lord knows cops are real good at callously refusing service to citizens in need for all sorts of reasons, like "policy".

    IIRC its a big no-no for cops to ask random citizens, or even people they know, to join in in fights, for several reasons. It is OK for a cop not to win a fight and guy gets away and other cops swarm in to search.

    she also did right thing in leaving scene to SAFE GUARD video evidence from police, especially police at the scene who seemed to be overly emotional and acting outside SOP.

    This guard is a rare example of a guard actually acting as they were taught in training. It matches up with my CA State training.

    I don't see how one standing person holding a cell phone filming at standard distance could "interfere" with other cops arriving to help, as claimed in comments.

    My advice, if you see ANY fight, control yourself and don't get involved. You don't know how and why it started. The person you might see as victim is just as likely to be total psycho (no offense Steve) and turn on you the second they are able. Maybe film from safe position, but be ready to flee for your life. You could very likely suddenly become the owner of evidence that could send some psycho BACK to prison for the rest of their life, and they will act accordingly without remorse.

    Safe to assume at least one party you see in a public fight has 2 strikes already.

    Now that I've watched the video there is ALREADY a 20-30 old adult male helping the cop in the 'fight' which is just the cop sitting on the guy. Again, grandma seems to be doing EVERYTHING right. Filming, as well as sort of circling the action in uniform to kinda let everyone (including maybe arrestee's friends) understand they need to keep back (and that everything is being recorded). Just STANDING nearby is also important in busy gas station. Lot of drivers aren't gonna be looking for guys fighting on the ground less than 3' off pavement.

    Cop should be fired for asking a grandma to join in in a 'fight' when he has one able bodied young adult male already assisting.

    Houston police Union boss should be in prison.
    Last edited by Squid; 08-23-2018, 11:14 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Squid View Post
      "her" and "grandson". Do the math. this is a GRANDMA. not sure if she lacks "training" but she certainly lacks physical conditioning.

      IMO she did exactly right thing. IMO suspect will be less likely to continue fighting cops if they know another person is watching, calling 911, and filming.

      not her job to help cops in fight. lord knows cops are real good at callously refusing service to citizens in need for all sorts of reasons, like "policy".

      IIRC its a big no-no for cops to ask random citizens, or even people they know, to join in in fights, for several reasons. It is OK for a cop not to win a fight and guy gets away and other cops swarm in to search.

      she also did right thing in leaving scene to SAFE GUARD video evidence from police, especially police at the scene who seemed to be overly emotional and acting outside SOP.

      This guard is a rare example of a guard actually acting as they were taught in training. It matches up with my CA State training.

      I don't see how one standing person holding a cell phone filming at standard distance could "interfere" with other cops arriving to help, as claimed in comments.

      My advice, if you see ANY fight, control yourself and don't get involved. You don't know how and why it started. The person you might see as victim is just as likely to be total psycho (no offense Steve) and turn on you the second they are able. Maybe film from safe position, but be ready to flee for your life. You could very likely suddenly become the owner of evidence that could send some psycho BACK to prison for the rest of their life, and they will act accordingly without remorse.

      Safe to assume at least one party you see in a public fight has 2 strikes already.
      I can reasonably understand why she didn't get involved, but I think that she really should have called 911. There's comments about "Security guard fired for refusing to intervene..." but what needs to be remembered is that the fact she was employed as a security guard was irrelevant. The courts have consistently agreed that a more security guard has no more responsibility to intervene that any other random person. If you wouldn't expect a random grandmother to intervene you shouldn't expect the security guard to (who was a grandmother to) either.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Consolewatcher View Post

        but I think that she really should have called 911.
        if you watch the vid it was obviously a pretty public event, and no doubt 911 was getting more than enough calls.

        this wasn't like some lone cop VS bad guy out in sticks with no one else around

        I haven't figured out how to film and call at same time. IIRC they make phones like that due to various laws about recording phone calls. Thats one reason I always carry at least two phones, even if one has no service, just to record.

        Again, IMO she did right thing NOT contacting police immediately and safe guarding the video evidence.

        Like any lawyer will tell you, "There is no reason to talk to police so fast".

        What part of any "investigation" the Police union Pres did the cops need her video for? Given they already seemed to have good video from CCTV.

        I'm pretty sure both the station owner, and especially his underwriter (guy that made him hire security in first place) would 110% approve of this guard's actions in this case.

        Also note that Arrestee and grandma are both Black. Now suppose she DID help the cops, and that caused her some "blowback" in the community. Would Houston PD be there to help her? Would they care? Of course not. Not because she is Black, but just because she isn't an important person.
        Last edited by Squid; 08-24-2018, 12:07 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Squid View Post

          if you watch the vid it was obviously a pretty public event, and no doubt 911 was getting more than enough calls.

          this wasn't like some lone cop VS bad guy out in sticks with no one else around

          I haven't figured out how to film and call at same time. IIRC they make phones like that due to various laws about recording phone calls. Thats one reason I always carry at least two phones, even if one has no service, just to record.

          Again, IMO she did right thing NOT contacting police immediately and safe guarding the video evidence.

          Like any lawyer will tell you, "There is no reason to talk to police so fast".

          What part of any "investigation" the Police union Pres did the cops need her video for? Given they already seemed to have good video from CCTV.

          I'm pretty sure both the station owner, and especially his underwriter (guy that made him hire security in first place) would 110% approve of this guard's actions in this case.

          Also note that Arrestee and grandma are both Black. Now suppose she DID help the cops, and that caused her some "blowback" in the community. Would Houston PD be there to help her? Would they care? Of course not. Not because she is Black, but just because she isn't an important person.
          You make a good point about "blowback". As an older person working in security I'm guessing she probably doesn't have a lot of money and thus lives in a not-so-great area of town. She may have a genuine fear that she'll run into this guy or one of his buddies and that he might retaliate against her or her family. Remember, people aren't afraid to retaliate against security guards in the same way they're afraid of retaliating against police (because it'll bring down the full weight of the police on them).

          The company probably fired her because in their eyes being in good favour with the local police department is more valuable than any single employee. If she had any protection against unjust firing (such as a union) they would likely have no legal cause to fire her.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SF_Security Officer View Post

            [..]

            What a freaking disgrace. She seems to be carrying a taser and handcuffs which I don't know why she didn't use to help the Officer. Stuff like this is what gives this industry a bad name. And supposedly her grandson tried to defend her by saying that she didn't have training for this. Wow.
            Simply having a taser and handcuffs does not mean she was trained in dealing with combative people. Even when the training does exist, and the person is equipped with defensive tools (such as a taser) it's usually meant to be used to get away from a dangerous person, not to subdue them.



            Comment


            • #7
              Failure to assist a Police Officer when instructed to by them is a misdemeanor.

              Squid. Just stop posting.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Soper View Post
                Failure to assist a Police Officer when instructed to by them is a misdemeanor.

                Squid. Just stop posting.
                its also illegal to hitch up more than two mules on Sunday unless the wagon is also accompanied by two or more riders on horseback, but like many other laws "still on the books" they would be laughed out of any court today. Such laws were passed before cars. Laws about joining the "posse" were passed before Police Unions were bankrupting major cities with insane staffing levels and unfunded pensions.

                I'm pretty sure even the day after "assist LEO" law was passed a cop that demanded a GRANDMA join in to a street fight that had "gone to ground", when there was already willing YOUNG MAN helping, would be laughed out of court, and hopefully laughed all the way out of the Territory. Sadly, today we have Public Sector unions and this guy will be be on taxpayer's teat till he retires.

                she was as he demanded "helping", she was standing by for actionable instructions. There was literally "no more room" in the fight. There were TWO good sized adult males on top of him. Only way she could join in would be called for "piling on" in NFL.

                I don't think "instructed by LEO" covers blindly obeying obviously ill-conceived and vague demands of an obviously hysterical LEO. It means stuff like "Park your car across the road here and get out and stand over there" or "lock these doors" or "shut off the power" or even "gimme your keys, I'm hereby commandeering this here vehicle" (my advice would to 'overthrow' the keys into the nearest storm drain, lol). Stuff that wouldn't be too illegal normally, and wont create victims and possible CRIMINAL CHARGES for the helper. Yes, jumping into a fight can get you charges even on the best of days, if some DA disagrees with amount of force you deployed. And of course Civil.

                Otherwise, what would keep our Civil Service Superstars from just ordering all us Little People to do their jobs for them?
                Last edited by Squid; 08-24-2018, 10:29 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Consolewatcher View Post

                  You make a good point about "blowback". As an older person working in security I'm guessing she probably doesn't have a lot of money and thus lives in a not-so-great area of town. She may have a genuine fear that she'll run into this guy or one of his buddies and that he might retaliate against her or her family. Remember, people aren't afraid to retaliate against security guards in the same way they're afraid of retaliating against police (because it'll bring down the full weight of the police on them).

                  The company probably fired her because in their eyes being in good favour with the local police department is more valuable than any single employee. If she had any protection against unjust firing (such as a union) they would likely have no legal cause to fire her.
                  hopefully she'll get reassigned or re-hired, but being on bad side of Police Union goon might make that tricky. Most security firms will be VERY sensitive about any compliant from ANYONE about a guard, and "fire" them but actually just reassign them.

                  I'd hire her because she did the right thing by the client, when 9 out of 10 guards would've created unneeded liability or worse.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Soper View Post
                    Failure to assist a Police Officer when instructed to by them is a misdemeanor.

                    Squid. Just stop posting.
                    As Squid said just because a law's on the books doesn't mean that the crown/DA would actually proceed with charges or the courts would convict. The courts would certainly not expect random people to get physically involved in a conflict between a police officer and a highly combative person. As I said, the courts generall consider security guards to be "random civilians" with no more duties, obligations, etc. than anyone else. If the courts wouldn't expect Frank the Postal Worker, Maryanne the McDonalds Employee, Julie the Receptionist, etc. to do it, they won't expect this security guard (who is also old enough to be a grandmother...) to either.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Consolewatcher View Post

                      As Squid said just because a law's on the books doesn't mean that the crown/DA would actually proceed with charges or the courts would convict. The courts would certainly not expect random people to get physically involved in a conflict between a police officer and a highly combative person. As I said, the courts generall consider security guards to be "random civilians" with no more duties, obligations, etc. than anyone else. If the courts wouldn't expect Frank the Postal Worker, Maryanne the McDonalds Employee, Julie the Receptionist, etc. to do it, they won't expect this security guard (who is also old enough to be a grandmother...) to either.
                      then again, in this case, everyone is hinting: she was Black and he was Black, so she was only filming to hopefully get the cop in trouble and was on the side of Arrestee, and THAT is why she didn't jump into the fight. most judges would buy into that without a second thought. The Police Union goon is brazenly lying about how she got in way of other cops. Judge and Police Union goon will be in same club.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The expression on her face tells you everything you need to know. If you work in security, you have to expect to encounter the police at some point. If you hate the police, think that laws are how the elite keep people down or are otherwise anti-social in your opinion or lifestyle, this isn't the job for you.

                        On another note, I fully expect to see a day in the future when a building burns down or a bridge collapses, and everyone is so busy filming and posting everybody forgot to call emergency services.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
                          The expression on her face tells you everything you need to know. If you work in security, you have to expect to encounter the police at some point. If you hate the police, think that laws are how the elite keep people down or are otherwise anti-social in your opinion or lifestyle, this isn't the job for you.

                          On another note, I fully expect to see a day in the future when a building burns down or a bridge collapses, and everyone is so busy filming and posting everybody forgot to call emergency services.
                          No doubt it's entirely possible that she hates the police. I have met plenty of security guards (both black and white) who hate the police for various reasons. Keep in mind though that there are many security guard jobs where you will very rarely encounter the police, if at all, and if they do come to your site they'll be interacting with the client or your supervisor instead of you.

                          I dunno; the whole thing about getting fired left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't like how the police union guy went to the security company and basically complained to try to get her fired. To me, it comes off a little like suggesting that police are "above" security guards and that he is saying "how dare you not follow the requests of the police! You report to us!". Also, even though he went as the representative of the police union and not the police department, the company may have felt like they had little choice but to do what he said.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have seen someone charged with not aiding a police officer. Actually, a New York security guard was charged with it I believe.

                            If she is an officer trained as a level 2 officer, then it is her responsibility and her company's, to gauge that ability to function at that level. If she is carrying it, she damn well be ready to use it. Age doesn't matter. I know cops over their in their sixties that still kick ass.

                            There is a reason she is recording it and refusing to help. We all know why and aren't saying it.
                            Last edited by PhantomX0990; 08-28-2018, 05:44 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PhantomX0990 View Post
                              I have seen someone charged with not aiding a police officer. Actually, a New York security guard was charged with it I believe.

                              If she is an officer trained as a level 2 officer, then it is her responsibility and her company's, to gauge that ability to function at that level. If she is carrying it, she damn well be ready to use it. Age doesn't matter. I know cops over their in their sixties that still kick ass.

                              There is a reason she is recording it and refusing to help. We all know why and aren't saying it.
                              The New York case was from 2011. I don't know what ended up happening but I suspect the charges would be dropped.

                              Being a "level 2" officer means nothing. The whole "levels" thing for security is pretty much BS that isn't recognized by anywhere and it mostly a tool for security companies to sell training to people. Heck, the difference between "levels" if often less than a week's worth of training.

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