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United did NOTHING wrong (neither did cops)

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  • United did NOTHING wrong (neither did cops)

    Part of the deal for low, low fares is chance on getting bumped. Any idiot that doesn't get that is why I'm predicting a spike in fares.

    Part of flying, or even taking bus or train is "must obey crew".

    United did exactly what every Security company will tell you to do: "don't do any physical arresting/removal yourself if its at all possible to turn it over to LEOs".

    Once United called the cops, United's liability for what happened next between LEO and Dr Creepy ended. Just like its not your deal what happens after you call 911 to have any other trespasser removed. Its not your choice it they decide to fight with LEO, and what level of force LEO uses to subdue them.

    Was United right to call LEO to have him removed? Absolutely. As soon as crew starts getting guff from a passenger they should call LEOs to have them removed, especially if still on the ground.

    Two broken teeth and broken nose. One would think that as a doctor 69yrs old he'd know that fighting with the cops is sort of a young man's game.

    "How not to get your ass kicked by the police" by Kidd Rock.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

    In this "post 9/11 world" I'd say the LEO has a responsibility to instantly disable anyone resisting their authority on an airline, and that goes triple for any agitated 3rd world ESL types.

    I would have been thinking "do we clear the other passengers, or would THAT make him trigger any bomb he might have?"

    Here is how I see the liability:

    1)United to Dr Creepy-MAYBE the $800 they offered, but remember the $800 was just United being nice. Oh, and a refund for flight not taken.

    2)LEO/dept to Dr Creepy-zero, just like any other time YOU CHOOSE to fight with cops.

    3)Dr Creepy to United-whatever the cost for cleaning blood and making sure no one got AIDS. Lets remember he is a convicted sex offender who probably uses a lot of hookers since his med lic got yanked for the Sex4RX.

    4)Dr Creepy to rest of passengers-whatever the cost of UNLAWFULLY delaying them is.

    5)Dr Creepy to "The People"-whatever it cost for all the fuss, including whatever salary the now suspended LEO is getting paid while he isn't on duty for The People, and some jail time.

    If Dr Creepy HADN"T chosen to refuse to leave when ordered and then fight with cops he'd have a decent case for damages since they let him board and get seated, etc, first, but IMO the fact he chose to fight with cops shows United was 110% right to have him removed and call cops to do so.

    PS-when the Govt of Red China chimes in as somehow representing this person who had a US medical lic for decades and lived in the USA, etc, what they are really telling us is in their opinion "Chinese people are ill behaved and that can't be fixed even after decades of effort" and that "Even fully Naturalized educated Chinese with high level professional licenses can't be expected to behave as semi-civilized people, at least not to Western standards". No one else was bring up his ethnic status, mostly that he claimed to be 'a doctor'.

    I'm not the one saying that, that is what the PRC's official position is.
    Last edited by Squid; 04-16-2017, 01:07 AM.

  • #2
    LEOs didn't remove him. That was security at O'Hare that was called in to remove him. That's why O'Hare may be named in the suit, besides United.
    "Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea"

    "Veni, Vidi, Vici!"

    "Whatcha gonna do now, PL?"

    "Strategy is the craft of the warrior. Commanders must enact the craft, and troopers should know this Way. There is no warrior in the world today who really understands the Way of strategy." Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin

    http://sentinelsofflorida.com/ is where I go for all of my Florida security info.

    Comment


    • #3
      No. It was LEOS. Limited authority LEOS, but LEOS none the less. and yes thats why the aiport and city will be named.

      Comment


      • #4
        Parts of flying is that you may have to fly somewhere else, or be somewhere
        2008my wife,and I took a Holland America cruise ship from Seattle to Alaska
        One flight non-stop flies from Boston to Seattle daily. Alaska airlines
        Once we landed it was a mad dash from the airport in Seattle to the Port of Seattle
        and hop on the ship. Truthfully I planned plentiful time
        We sat at the Port of Seattle for six hours before the ship departed
        What if Alaska airlines bumped us off?
        Are they gonna pay for missed Holland America ship?
        $4,000 plus!
        No I didn't thinks so
        &&&
        Yes probably we would be good boys and girls, and leave peacefully
        But once home we would be telephoning our junkyard lawyer
        because Alaska overbooked, and we missed our ship
        Think i am wrong in this last viewpoint? It can happen to you
        &&&
        And now something to chuckle about
        Back in 2008 Securitas provided security at the Port of Seattle
        My wife,and both worked for Securtias back in Massachusetts
        I causally mentioned to a supervisor for Securitas at the Port of Seattle
        we too worked for Securitas. She had several bookoffs, and wanted
        to know if we wanted to work for her that night.. She said she could fax
        or work files from Securitas in Boston. I knew she was joking but we both
        said . Thanks. but no Thanks
        Last edited by copelandamuffy; 04-16-2017, 08:01 AM.
        http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/ Greatest Comedy team ever!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by copelandamuffy View Post
          Parts of flying is that you may have to fly somewhere else, or be somewhere
          2008my wife,and I took a Holland America cruise ship from Seattle to Alaska
          One flight non-stop flies from Boston to Seattle daily. Alaska airlines
          Once we landed it was a mad dash from the airport in Seattle to the Port of Seattle
          and hop on the ship. Truthfully I planned plentiful time
          We sat at the Port of Seattle for six hours before the ship departed
          What if Alaska airlines bumped us off?
          Are they gonna pay for missed Holland America ship?
          $4,000 plus!
          No I didn't thinks so
          &&&
          Yes probably we would be good boys and girls, and leave peacefully
          But once home we would be telephoning our junkyard lawyer
          because Alaska overbooked, and we missed our ship
          Think i am wrong in this last viewpoint? It can happen to you
          &&&
          And now something to chuckle about
          Back in 2008 Securitas provided security at the Port of Seattle
          My wife,and both worked for Securtias back in Massachusetts
          I causally mentioned to a supervisor for Securitas at the Port of Seattle
          we too worked for Securitas. She had several bookoffs, and wanted
          to know if we wanted to work for her that night.. She said she could fax
          or work files from Securitas in Boston. I knew she was joking but we both
          said . Thanks. but no Thanks
          don't wanna risk getting bumped? fly 1st class or charter your own biz jet.

          your less than 1st class ticket means you AGREE to taking a chance on getting bumped.

          I'm telling you, this one Sex-Creep drama-momma is going to ruin cheap airfares for everyone else.

          Is there some way I can do some insider trading and buy futures on airfares, cause they going to go up up and away shortly, at least in relation to other metrics like fuel and security costs.

          Just like when Justic Scalia dropped dead without warning (except being 70 and fat) without any autopsy (done by law on any drunk or addict found dead in the street), I still gotta ask "How many people were required to conspire on this event that moved stock price a BILLION dollars, assuming it was a plot?"

          We know at least one player, the poker playing Sex4RX doctor would be predisposed to mastermind such a fraud.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TOII View Post
            No. It was LEOS. Limited authority LEOS, but LEOS none the less. and yes thats why the aiport and city will be named.
            According to Chicago's Department of Aviation, those are their security officers.
            "Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea"

            "Veni, Vidi, Vici!"

            "Whatcha gonna do now, PL?"

            "Strategy is the craft of the warrior. Commanders must enact the craft, and troopers should know this Way. There is no warrior in the world today who really understands the Way of strategy." Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin

            http://sentinelsofflorida.com/ is where I go for all of my Florida security info.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tacticalguy View Post

              According to Chicago's Department of Aviation, those are their security officers.
              as Hillary says "At this point what does it matter?"

              They were whoever was in line following standard airport/govt approved procedure to physically remove anyone who flight crew told them needed removing. I've worked county fairs where Security was physically removing unwanted paying guests (no refunds or offers to leave for cash either, to put it mildly) as LEO looked on to sort of supervise or back up.

              If it was "private security" that might have been doing him a favor because IIRC when "security" 86ed a fair patron that was the end of it, but if LEOs got involved it was a ride to jail and court later, and fines, and record, anger classes, etc.


              More details on the 'doctor'. He was also found to have engaged in sex with a male patient- Brian Case, who he knew from the church they both attended - and then supplied him with drugs, including Oxycontin, in exchange for sexual favors.

              The sexual liaisons, which happened in motel rooms, were recorded by undercover agents. He paid $200 in cash each time he met Case.

              Case said he believed that Dr. Dao wanted to hook him on drugs so he would keep meeting him for gay sex.



              Dr. Dao was arrested when Case agreed to go undercover. Even when he was caught with his shirt off and pants unbuckled, he denied he was there for gay sex with Case.

              The secret sex and drugs life of the doctor first came to light in July 2003 when police alerted the Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure of the allegations against him.

              In October 2003 he was indicted by a Jefferson County Grand Jury for 'criminal acts of trafficking in a controlled substance, obtaining drugs by fraud and deceit, and unauthorized prescribing, dispensing or administering of controlled substances'.

              His medical license was suspended later that month.

              Dr Dao underwent intense scrutiny and re-training for several years after his convictions. He also appealed unsuccessfully against conviction, including claiming the undercover video of him semi-naked broke his expectation of privacy.


              Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4eWaswe3D
              Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

              He was trying to get man he was paying $200 "a pop" for gay sex hooked on drugs so he wouldn't need to pay the $200 anymore.

              IMO that isn't the sort of thing that gets cured with a few counseling sessions.

              It was his wife that turned him in.

              Story says United claims he tried to 'strike at LEOs' which isn't on vids, but I haven't seen any vids of the whole thing, just ones starts few seconds before LEOs pull him.

              my guess: LEOs warned him, reached for him, he hits their hands away, cells come out cause now its a scene, LEO rallies with understanding he ain't gonna come peacefully.

              No vids of crew or LEOs asking him a dozen times to get off, etc, which obviously happened.

              Its like Personal Foul in NFL. The refs often miss the guy that throws the first punch, but catch the guy who retaliates.

              I really hope at some point we get the crew and LEO side of this story to compare with Dao's.

              Dao's side "just wont add up", crew and LEOs will, and well as match passenger's.
              Last edited by Squid; 04-17-2017, 12:36 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tacticalguy View Post

                According to Chicago's Department of Aviation, those are their security officers.
                According to the city and the state they are leos. Even their uniforms say as much.

                from not long ago.
                http://abc7chicago.com/news/more-tha...armed/1407649/
                and
                http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ctive-shooter/

                Last edited by TOII; 04-17-2017, 10:56 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TOII View Post

                  According to the city and the state they are leos. Even their uniforms say as much.

                  from not long ago.
                  http://abc7chicago.com/news/more-tha...armed/1407649/
                  and
                  http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ctive-shooter/

                  When you're right, you're right. Thanks for pointing me in the correct direction.
                  "Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea"

                  "Veni, Vidi, Vici!"

                  "Whatcha gonna do now, PL?"

                  "Strategy is the craft of the warrior. Commanders must enact the craft, and troopers should know this Way. There is no warrior in the world today who really understands the Way of strategy." Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin

                  http://sentinelsofflorida.com/ is where I go for all of my Florida security info.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    WAY too many little half assed jurisdictions creating their own little police depts IMO. Should be fed marshals, state, county and city, period. No Transit Police, College Police, Airport Police, etc.

                    But the fact they were real cops means the cop in question is 99% gonna be fully cleared, because he had more legal authority and he's got a Police Union lawyer backing him up, as well as the whole entrenched LEO/court industrial complex.

                    That SHOULD leave Dao pretty much SOL, given United's involvment ended when they called for LEO.

                    IMO all this Social Media is bogus and United CEO is screwing up real bad on this. All he needs to do is say "Any passenger not obeying crew is subject to removal, for obvious reasons" and everyone would support him and United.

                    Dao's blowhard lawyer says a Common Carrier has extreme duty for safety of passengers, etc. Yeah, that is why they called LEO to remove someone who wasn't obeying crew. Dao wasn't the only passenger. Even if he was, United had a duty not to take off if he was refusing crews orders.

                    Reminds me of when I had to drive a company truck through SF right after they made seatbelts a big deal, and my coworker passenger seemed to have some superstition about seatbelts. He'd hold it NEXT to the buckle but not clipped in. WTF? He was "ESL" and I wanted to have a translator ask him if in his homeland were seatbelts rigged to trap people or something.
                    Last edited by Squid; 04-18-2017, 04:46 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Squid View Post
                      WAY too many little half assed jurisdictions creating their own little police depts IMO. Should be fed marshals, state, county and city, period. No Transit Police, College Police, Airport Police, etc.
                      I think that determining an agency's legal authority based on anything but risk is silly. There are colleges, transit operations, and airports that achieve a certain level of risk that can't be mitigated simply by a supply of city police officers, and I think they should have the ability to further support their security plans with, if necessary, LEOs.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nauticus View Post

                        I think that determining an agency's legal authority based on anything but risk is silly. There are colleges, transit operations, and airports that achieve a certain level of risk that can't be mitigated simply by a supply of city police officers, and I think they should have the ability to further support their security plans with, if necessary, LEOs.
                        Agreed, sir!
                        "Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea"

                        "Veni, Vidi, Vici!"

                        "Whatcha gonna do now, PL?"

                        "Strategy is the craft of the warrior. Commanders must enact the craft, and troopers should know this Way. There is no warrior in the world today who really understands the Way of strategy." Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin

                        http://sentinelsofflorida.com/ is where I go for all of my Florida security info.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nauticus View Post

                          I think that determining an agency's legal authority based on anything but risk is silly. There are colleges, transit operations, and airports that achieve a certain level of risk that can't be mitigated simply by a supply of city police officers, and I think they should have the ability to further support their security plans with, if necessary, LEOs.
                          prob is then you got three things:

                          1)lots of cops driving around in areas that aren't in their jurisdiction. Example: a community college district with several campuses, or BART cops (transit). you don't want low level LEO to be all "specialized" (not tasked to deal with the other 98% of probs in their area)

                          2)lots of mid-level bureaucrats with their own little private armies that are even more insulated from voters that normal cops. Now you got some faceless BART or college "manager" empowered to hand out basically free money to LEO. Yeah, I've seen this at colleges, where a new manager came in with "full support of campus police" and basically let them do whatever they wanted, which seemed to be sleeping and hiding.

                          3)bureaucrats inventing reasons to increase budgets, bloat and overhead. In the private sector, the market keeps overhead like security lean and mean, which is why you rarely see a private company wanting Private Police Force in budget. IIRC the rare exceptions are Rail Roads.

                          Just because an "agency" is in public sector shouldn't give them any authority to create new LE depts. Take same money and give it to whatever county or city jurisdiction they are in.

                          That will reduce govt growth, mission creep, etc.

                          They can do what Night Clubs do and have a "police detail".
                          Last edited by Squid; 04-20-2017, 02:23 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tacticalguy View Post

                            According to Chicago's Department of Aviation, those are their security officers.
                            From what I read, they are security with limited police powers (ie "special police"). The powers-that-be are saying that while they have some police powers they shouldn't have "police" on their uniforms as they are not "full"/"regular" police officers.


                            ‚Äč

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I can't help but wonder if this will cause a quasi-"Ferguson Effect" type situation where police are going to be hesitant to remove people who are trespassing but not otherwise causing much of a problem.

                              Comment

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