Tasers, Could they be a liability?

[FlashLightCop]

It is my understanding that tasers are already on the market for consumers. I was wanting to know if anyone in here has had experience with a taser. At the mall I work at, we probably won't get them since we are getting O.C. spray, however, I am curious as to how they work along with the liabilities that one could face with using them. I have heard of some of the dangers involved with using them, such as someone that has had a heart defibrilator surgically put in and being tased would cause that person to die. What effects would a taser have on someone that was on PCP? From what I learned in the academy, pepper spray won't stop someone on meth or PCP, since it does seem to give them super human strength. Would a taser be able to get the job done?

[N. A. Corbier]

"hart defibrillator causes death," if I remember correctly, is a myth.

http://www.taser.com

Go read about the weapon from the manufacturer, they have a lot of material designed to convince security company owners, soccer moms, mayors, and police chiefs on why they should carry one.

[MartinMc]

Tasers can be a liability, take for instance someone who has a pacemaker the charge from the taser can cause the pace maker to do a number of things including:- stopping it, cause it to slow or even increase. As for the PCP i spoke to a sheriffs deputy on time and he told me about an individual that he had tasered and i can't remember if it was PCP or something else he was on but the taser only made the individual more aggressive.

Have a great day
Slan
Martin

[LPGuy]

Tasers can be a liability, take for instance someone who has a pacemaker the charge from the taser can cause the pace maker to do a number of things including:- stopping it, cause it to slow or even increase. As for the PCP i spoke to a sheriffs deputy on time and he told me about an individual that he had tasered and i can't remember if it was PCP or something else he was on but the taser only made the individual more aggressive.

Have a great day
Slan
Martin

Someone who has a pacemaker shouldn't be putting themselves into a situation where they need to be Tased before they comply.

Any resulting injuries are their own stupid fault, IMHO.

[N. A. Corbier]

Can someone please find me a credible citation on this pacemaker thing? Taser says people with pacemakers are not affected. Remember, the amperage in the Taser pulse is so low that the pacemaker's normal pulse "drowns it out."

That's a cardiac pulse delivered directly to the heart muscle. The Taser is a shaped pulse of low amperage delivered to muscle groups.

[HotelSecurity]

I'm definitely not an expert since we are not allowed them in Canada but I think a lot of this "causing heart problems" goes back to the cattle prod type of devices they used to have before the Taser. In those devices the charge went from where you touched the person, passing all the way through the body to ground. This can be dangerous for the heart.

[locknid]

tasers can be a liability, but so can any use of force, even detaining and arresting someone can be a liability. In my personal opinion a taser should only be carried by

1. someone who is allowed to according to company policy
2. someone who has been trained by a certified taser trainer, or attended an official taser training class
3. has a company insurance policy which covers them while at work
4. is provided legal counsel in case a suit is brought against you
5. has a little common sense

I am glad tasers arent always allowed in private security as most people arent responsible enough to carry one.

[Bill Warnock]

Can someone please find me a credible citation on this pacemaker thing? Taser says people with pacemakers are not affected. Remember, the amperage in the Taser pulse is so low that the pacemaker's normal pulse "drowns it out."

That's a cardiac pulse delivered directly to the heart muscle. The Taser is a shaped pulse of low amperage delivered to muscle groups.

Nathan, I remember reading something published by the Department of Health and Human Services some time ago. I think, repeat, I think it was at the behest of National Institute of Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice. NILECJ should have it in one of their Standards like they do for walk through metal detectors and such as would DHHS. I'll root around and see what I come up with.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[LPGuy]

I'm definitely not an expert since we are not allowed them in Canada but I think a lot of this "causing heart problems" goes back to the cattle prod type of devices they used to have before the Taser. In those devices the charge went from where you touched the person, passing all the way through the body to ground. This can be dangerous for the heart.

I'm by no means a Taser expert either, but from what I understand, the electrical current travels between the two muscles in which the pronged darts attached themselves. Therefore, if you have one dart in your back and the other in your calf muscle, the current would travel back and forth between those two muscles.

The arguments against Taser are the same that were made against O.C. spray 15 years ago. People are not dying in droves after being shocked with a Taser, as much as Amnesty International would have you believe. They are deployed by thousands of police, security, and military agencies and are used hundreds of times every single day in just the United States alone without a single harmful incident occuring.

[Arff312]

I carry a Taser and have been trained in it usage by a Taser instuctor. The Taser is an awesome weapon to have and is great to use. It allows you to use a weapon with little side effects on a suspect. You dont have any crosss contamination etc... The weapon works on 99 % of people in studies . There are always a few that it doesnt. As far as dangerous remember we (EMTS) shock people with 200-350 joules of power with a AED. the Taser is approx. .7 Joules also there is an amount of joules considered safe for cow fences etc.. that humans wont get killed by them and thats around 150 Joules. So the taser in therory cant kill(ONCE again tehre are always exceptions or rarwe cases). Most of the cases of death are the guy running swollows 20 bags ofmeth and then gets tasered. He died from the meth not the taser. Or he gets Tasered and falls on the knife he was holding (think this happened recently in floridia. They are a good less then lethal force option when used by trained certified officers. Also the officers need to b einsured and authorized to carry them. Etc..

[ValleyOne]

Per the Colonel's (LOL) request here is what I am finding regarding Electrical Stun Devices and Internal Pacemakers;


The Internal Medicine World Report
June 2006

Cocaine intoxication. Contrary to claims in the lay media, use of cocaine or even cocaine intoxication may actually protect against the life-threatening arrhythmias that can result from electrical stun guns, according to a study done on animals. The drug reduced a healthy heart’s vulnerability to developing ventricular fibrillation by 1.5 to 2 times above the study’s baseline safety margin. Lead investigator Dhanunjaya Lakkireddy, of the Cleveland Clinic Foundation in Ohio, and colleagues used a custom-built device to deliver a neuromuscular-incapacitating discharge to research animals that matched the waveform of commercially available stun guns (ie, Taser X-26). “There have been many news reports that tasers can increase the incidence of heart attacks in people on cocaine, but our findings show that these claims are unfounded and not based on science,” said Dr Lakkireddy. He noted that more research is needed to determine the relationship between cocaine and tasers in patients with underlying heart conditions.

Interesting but now to the original issue and pacemakers...

I looked at the Journal of American Medicine and the American Medical Assoc. Both websites turn up nothing for the interaction of Taser (Electrical Stun Devices) and internal pacemakers... For now...

[sgtnewby]

Two of our former officers here at HCMC resigned from here and now work for Taser International. Also, some of our emergency doctors did extensive research into their possible medical impacts. N.A. is 100% correct on this, the "pace maker" concern is unfounded. Also, there has never been an autopsy ruling that has said that the Taser was the sole cause of death. And as a sidenote, pepper spray has caused death in asmatics, and people with alergies to pepper because they can go into anaphalactic shock and stop breathing. In most "use of force continuums" that include Tasers, the Taser is a lesser form of force then OC or pepper spray. Food for thought.

Can someone please find me a credible citation on this pacemaker thing? Taser says people with pacemakers are not affected. Remember, the amperage in the Taser pulse is so low that the pacemaker's normal pulse "drowns it out."

That's a cardiac pulse delivered directly to the heart muscle. The Taser is a shaped pulse of low amperage delivered to muscle groups.