what would you have done?

[Valor Eastbay]

hello everyone,
i picked up this website through officer.com and this place seemed about right for me as i am a Mall Security Guard. i wanted to get some input and proper procedures after an small personal incident happening today at work on what should've been done.

it was about 20:15 hours (45min before closing hours) and theirs a vehicle with plates or tags (brand new car) parked outside by the red firelane outside entrance #1 blocking parking lot traffic (narrow road and i was more worried about buses trying to get through). i drive up to the vehicle and the driver has his windows up. i shout to get his attention and he ignores me and doesnt bother to roll down the window. so i go ahead and shout out "pull your vehicle to the other side if you are going to wait for somebody" and he just mugs at me. i pull behind him leaving my flashers on so drivers knows why traffic is being delayed . the driver still stays parked and i go out of my vehicle, knock on his window to repeat myself. again, he ignores and said in a threathen matter "do not knock on my window". i reply with "pull your vehicle to the other side, thank you" and walk away. after 5min, he still stays posted.

this man has made me pretty angry and i know i shouldnt be because its just an ignorant person as theirs so many in this world. i was working with a team of clowns that night and was disappointed. i really wanted my dispatch to call PD but i know they would take up to 10min and wouldnt even bother for a call like this. in this situation, what would have you done personally? what could've been the proper procedure?
my company does allow to write "fake tickets" which is just a big red tag with the vehicles information stating this is a warning and we can legally tow the vehicle on next offense.

[11B/PMC]

That's a pretty common problem in this business.

If your dispatch bucked at calling PD, I would have called them myself.

To me, this issue would have gone from a fire lane violation to trespassing in about two seconds. I'd ask the person to move their vehicle, they refuse, I'd then ask the person to leave the property. At that point, when they refuse, it has become a misdemeanor criminal violation, not a traffic ticket.

When PD arrives, the subject either cooperates or faces charges. You record all the vehicle information you can get (I would have done this even before approaching the subject the first time), and possibly even the personal info. on the subject if PD is willing to provide that info. to you. if the subject has left the scene prior to PD arrival, you can still move on to the next step.

Head down to your magistrates office, explain to him/her the situation, fill out a complaint (it's very easy) and wait for your Court date to come in the mail. In court, that fire lane violator will seriously be considering whether they made the right decision by ignoring a security officer.

[SEO_09]

11B/PMC I agree, but if you have any kind of warning lights on your vehical, other than hazard flashers, you should have tried to use them, then the PA system, if equiped. Other than that I would trespass him off property for failure to obey, which is usually a property policy. If he will not comply then have him arrested. Thats the way my last agecy did it, but I don't know your SOP.

[11B/PMC]

11B/PMC I agree, but if you have any kind of warning lights on your vehical, other than hazard flashers, you should have tried to use them, then the PA system, if equiped .

That's a really good point. I would exhaust all level-1 measures before making contact with the subject. Your Company Policy should have that spelled out for you.

When all else fails, notify dispatch, record the scene info in your super-duper-security notebook, and approach with caution.

[HotelSecurity]

Does the mall have a 2nd vehicle. Maybe something from Maintenance? You could always box him in with the 2 vehicles & both of you could go on your coffee break I'd make it a good long coffee break, with maybe a footpatrol for a half hour or so.

[Valor Eastbay]

thanks for the advice everyone, ill definately keep that in mind next time this happens. sadly, we arent fully trained or very knowledable on proper procedures and whatnot (hence the reason why i was working with clowns that night). can you please explain more on the magistrates office?

[FlashLightCop]

I would have had him arrested.

I too work for Valor. I have been in that same situation many times that you were in. I will agree with a previous statement that was made. Once the driver pretty much tells you to "screw off" by making gestures such as what he was making, I would ask him to move his car. If that did not get a response, I would ask him to leave. If he still chose not to comply, I would have him arrested and I would also ban him from the mall for criminal trespassing. If I could get away with towing his car immediately after his or her arrest, I would do it. But if the car is blocking a lane of traffic, You may be able to get away with that.

Here's how I work. I will ask someone to comply only once. If I get an argument or rude gesture, the conversation is over and the police will be getting a call as well as a call to a back up officer in the event that things should go south. My view is if someone wishes to get childish, that's fine, but I don't have time for it.

I hope this has been helpful.

[FlashLightCop]

Boxing people in

There is one problem with boxing him in with mall vehicles. In Missouri, you cannot prevent someone from leaving unless they have done something that would warrant a quick detention. That could promptly bring a false imprisonment charge, as well as impersonation of a police officer. I personally agree that this should happen, but here in Missouri, we cannot do that.

[11B/PMC]

thanks for the advice everyone, ill definately keep that in mind next time this happens. sadly, we arent fully trained or very knowledable on proper procedures and whatnot (hence the reason why i was working with clowns that night). can you please explain more on the magistrates office?

Valor, send me a PM with some specifics. Work location, employer etc. I'll see If I can point you in the right direction as far as filing complaints. keep in mind, your company will certainly frown upon the tactics I'll advise. As long as you keep good records, and keep within the law, there should be no problem.

[11B/PMC]

Does the mall have a 2nd vehicle. Maybe something from Maintenance? You could always box him in with the 2 vehicles & both of you could go on your coffee break I'd make it a good long coffee break, with maybe a footpatrol for a half hour or so.

Never, ever, ever, ever do that. Bad karma.

Unlawful arrest, unauthorized detention, kidnapping, violation of civil rights. Valor, If you do this blocking maneuver, go ahead and cuff yourself. it may save you some aggravation!

[locknid]

obviously someone just trying to be an ass to security. If he refused to move I would have yelled loudly to him that he was now trespassed and if he refused to leave property he would be arrested for criminal trespassing. Usually when someone hears that they will be arrested they do what they are told. if not I would have gotten on my radio and started having my dispatch rolling pd, give vehicle description and person description. let them handle it. if they person had his window rolled down by now he would have heard that and known pd was on their way so he would then cooperate.

sometimes people are just asses because no one ever kicked them in the nuts growing up. You can't do anything about it. move on and forget about it.

[Arff312]

At the mall i used to work at we had two choices. First was i had a direct line to the CSO from the police department who would come out and cited them It is a hefty fine and would move when they realized i was lying and could actuallly do something. Second was we could trwespass him and we would arrest him. We tryed to not call the police until the person is in custody as they have lots better stuff to do. We really didnt run into this problem as most the people who visited our malll would realise that we dont play and will arrest if needed.

[Chucky]

It really depends on the local laws additude towards mall problems. In Hillsbrough
county Fl. the sheriffs dept would make regular sweeps of the lots for improper parking. Handicap or fire lane blockage. Most the malls are used by older folks that really need the spaces. There were certain people that felt they could park where ever they wanted to. I will warn you right now never piss off old folks as they can get pretty mean.

Synopsis Old folks can't park they leave and complain to mall management. Management sees revenue loss they complain to sheriff. Sheriff sees taxes from mall drop and in turn his budget shrinks. Sheriff tells his guys to raise hell. Word gets out and punks like your sh--Head guy smartens up. Well maybe he does.

[FlashLightCop]

I have run into also attitude problems. Sometimes I would get non compliance, and inform the person that police would be called. With some of these thugs, they say F*** you, call the cops. These kids would try to engage me and other Security Officers and even Police Officers into a verbal dispute and make physical threats.

When threats are intoduced, I tell them it is not a good idea, but if you try something, you better make sure I don't get back up. Which in real terms, this would mean a straight arm take down and being planted firmly onto the ground in a prone handcuffing position. These kids have no care at all. The ones I hear this most of the time from are 15 years old or younger! I have only had to do this to one person though and that's becuase he shoved me. It is true on most occurrances, that the kids will straighten up then they learn they could and will be arrested.

[Arff312]

I have learned in my experience that i dont ever say if you do this iam going to call the police. I will tell them straight up if you do not obey what i am telling you , Yuo are commiting a criem ( i will give them the crime name and penal codE) and i will arrest you for it. This may seem like it is a power trip or somethign but I have the backing of my company i work for in this. Also saying i will call the police implies you are just there to "Rat" people out and can't do anything ( or arent trained to). Now if your company says that you cant do anything follow there SOPs. But i would never work for a company that says see a crime call a cop as that attitude pisses police officers off. As they have better things to do them kick people off your property . i dont call the cops until i need them and cant handle the problem with my self or the other 30-40 officers i have responding as back up. Not everyone needs to go to jail either. There are many times it is right to just admonish and send them on their way. Remember your tax dollars are spent every time you send some one to jail.