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    I can't afford a lawyer

    Where I am I can arrest anyone I find committing a criminal offense on or in relation to the property I am being paid to protect.

    Tonight a laptop was stolen in the bar while it's owner was playing the loto machine. The cameras have a clear photo of the suspect picking up & walking off with the laptop. It is possible he is another guest of the hotel. If I see him in person later tonight or tomorrow, am I legally allowed as per FINDS COMMITTING to arrest him?
    I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
    Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

  • #2
    I have no idea about Canadian law, but the guy will most likely have to call the police to take the theft report eh? When the cops come, I would ask them how they suggest you proceed if you spot him.

    If you can narrow him down to a guest at your hotel, I would furnish the police with his room number and let them handle it.

    There is just too much liability associated with arresting someone if you are not 100 percent sure that you are on solid ground. Why risk your job and/or a lawsuit over a property crime?

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    • #3
      Especially when most laws allow for in presence arrest only. Now, if its a "felony," if you have that concept, and you have probable cause, then yeah, its a legal arrest.
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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      • #4
        Originally posted by CorpSec
        I have no idea about Canadian law, but the guy will most likely have to call the police to take the theft report eh? When the cops come, I would ask them how they suggest you proceed if you spot him.
        That's another problem. Montreal Police no longer come to take reports if it is not 100% sure that the suspect is still on the property for crimes like this. The victims are expected to go to the police station to fill out their own reports which the police add a case number to. The idea is good - to keep the police free to respond quicker to emergencies. The problem is, like in this case, the guest does not want to get dressed & walk 3 blocks to the police station in minus 20 C especially when, since to him they can't be bothered to come to take a report, they won't be bothered to investigate. This is a big problem here in Montreal that the politicans are playing with. At the end of the year they are telling everyone "crime is down: when in fact only "reported crime is down"
        I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
        Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
          Especially when most laws allow for in presence arrest only. Now, if its a "felony," if you have that concept, and you have probable cause, then yeah, its a legal arrest.

          No in Canada you can only arrest under probable cause if the person is fleeing someone who has the right to arrest them. That's why I really get upset when the guest refuses to make a police report. (see my post just before this one). If a report is made I can always approach the suspect, ask him to stay & wait for the police & arrest him if he flees before they arrive.
          I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
          Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

          Comment


          • #6
            Proceed with caution.

            Definitely have the complainant contact the police if he wishes to proceed. The police can review the evidence and decide if there is sufficient proof to make an arrest. If you see the suspect, try to get as much identification on him as you can under some pretense such as you need a DL to verify room payment or some other believable excuse. That will make it easier for the police to pick him up when the time comes.

            I DO NOT recommend making an arrest based on video tape that you had to go back and check on. That's different than actually seeing the crime being committed as it actually occurs.
            Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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            • #7
              Let's review the bidding. Did you contact your manager and did he contact his legal counsel? If so, what was the legal opinion? Do not, repeat, do not act on your own. You must follow the law and not from altruistism.
              Your actions must reflect the tenor of the corporation's. You must not become a loose cannon.
              Enjoy the day,
              Bill

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              • #8
                We were trained that we have to actually see the person committing the offense as it happens. If you saw it happen and made the arrest, the video can be used as evidense.

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                • #9
                  you have the right to arrest him and if he doesn ot give you your laptop back youcan take his valuable until you have 3 times the worth of your laptop

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Llorta
                    you have the right to arrest him and if he doesn ot give you your laptop back youcan take his valuable until you have 3 times the worth of your laptop
                    I don't think that is the case. It would make for interesting law though. A lot of laptops are worth in excess of 2k. Using this logic, your guest may walk with something as valuable as a used car or a Rolex watch.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Llorta
                      you have the right to arrest him and if he doesn ot give you your laptop back youcan take his valuable until you have 3 times the worth of your laptop
                      this is not serious, is it? In Canada something like this would make the arrest illegal. Once we have arrested someone we MUST turn them over to a Peace Officer. Even if they return the stolen article. Not turning them over makes the arrest illegal & your butt could be sued big time as well as possible criminal charges for assault etc.
                      I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                      Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm sorry, maybe its just my mood tonight..but if you have to actually check for an answer on this, then perhaps you shouldn't be considering "arresting" anyone, for anything and take the time to learn the laws & regulations in your jurisdiction & how they relate to your job function as a guard, officer, agent or whatever..do this before you end up "needing" to afford a lawyer for your own defense.
                        Yoda
                        Sometimes there is "Justice", sometimes there is "Just Us"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HotelSecurity
                          this is not serious, is it? In Canada something like this would make the arrest illegal. Once we have arrested someone we MUST turn them over to a Peace Officer. Even if they return the stolen article. Not turning them over makes the arrest illegal & your butt could be sued big time as well as possible criminal charges for assault etc.
                          yes this is serious. in america you can arrest him if you knew he took your laptop and you are entytled to 3 times the damages which you can take in his personal proparty right away

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Llorta
                            yes this is serious. in america you can arrest him if you knew he took your laptop and you are entytled to 3 times the damages which you can take in his personal proparty right away
                            America does not have a uniform criminal code. Each state has their own.
                            I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                            Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FDG06
                              I'm sorry, maybe its just my mood tonight..but if you have to actually check for an answer on this, then perhaps you shouldn't be considering "arresting" anyone, for anything and take the time to learn the laws & regulations in your jurisdiction & how they relate to your job function as a guard, officer, agent or whatever..do this before you end up "needing" to afford a lawyer for your own defense.
                              Yoda
                              That may be the best advice you'll ever receive, HotelSecurity. Well said, FDG06.

                              Hotel, once you have made this "arrest"' do you plan on searching the individual. If I was the receiving Peace Officer, and I received a prisoner who was not properly searched, I may get perturbed when I find a knife or handcuff key hidden on his or her person.

                              HAZMAT: Do you have the proper containers for meth residue, needles and other dangerous substances that may be found on the detained suspect? Does your Hotel have insurance for "Storage of hazardous materials"? Does your Hotel have insurance for prisoner containment? In other words, can you arrest someone and stick them in the storage closet, or is the managers office more appropriate? Are either of those detainment facilities escape proof? If the suspect runs, and harms an innocent civilian during escape, are you covered? How about handicapped, mentally challenged or under the influence suspects? What if someone is injured during the arrest process? What if this individual is HIV positive? Do you carry restraint devices? Are you trained and current in the training of those devices? And so on and so on........These are the things I would be an expert on, long before ever thinking of making an "arrest".

                              Too easy: identify the subject, move to position of cover and concealment. Notify the authorities, direct them into the scene with up-to-date and accurate information. Assist if requested, ask politely for a case number, and pray the court date doesn't fall on your day off.
                              "Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier." C.P.

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