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This is why you don't try to disarm guys with knives

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  • #31
    Originally posted by MartinMc
    I first saw these photos 2 weeks ago during my G license class the instructor showed them to us with the strict instruction that if and when you are working and someone pulls a knife on you warn them to drop the knife if they don't comply put 2 rounds in them

    Slan
    have a great day
    Martin
    What if the guy is deaf?? If you already have them at gunpoint and they are not on top of you, then I wouldn't be so quick to fire.
    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Mr. Security
      What if the guy is deaf?? If you already have them at gunpoint and they are not on top of you, then I wouldn't be so quick to fire.

      Well if he continues to walk toward me in a threatening manner then i will shoot cos at the end of the day i want to go home to my wife and 18month old son

      slan
      martin

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      • #33
        Originally posted by MartinMc
        Well if he continues to walk toward me in a threatening manner then i will shoot cos at the end of the day i want to go home to my wife and 18month old son

        slan
        martin
        That's different. At that point, you are justified.
        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by MartinMc
          I first saw these photos 2 weeks ago during my G license class the instructor showed them to us with the strict instruction that if and when you are working and someone pulls a knife on you warn them to drop the knife if they don't comply put 2 rounds in them

          Slan
          have a great day
          Martin
          Did your G instructor do the 21 foot drill with your class? If not, realize now that someone within 21 feet of you can stab you in a dead run before you get your gun out of the holster, on target, and rounds in the bad guy. They're thinking 21 feet isn't enough, as well, maybe 30.

          This does not mean that you kill anything within 30 feet with a knife. You will not have the chance, because your gun is in its holster. What this means is be aware of cover at all times, and be ready to retreat diagonally to some cover to buy you some time.

          Which school did you get your G at?
          Some Kind of Commando Leader

          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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          • #35
            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
            Did your G instructor do the 21 foot drill with your class? If not, realize now that someone within 21 feet of you can stab you in a dead run before you get your gun out of the holster, on target, and rounds in the bad guy. They're thinking 21 feet isn't enough, as well, maybe 30.

            This does not mean that you kill anything within 30 feet with a knife. You will not have the chance, because your gun is in its holster. What this means is be aware of cover at all times, and be ready to retreat diagonally to some cover to buy you some time.

            Which school did you get your G at?
            Nathan et al, if the 21-foot rule is not a functional part of their daily lives, these folks, like this gentleman, are sitting ducks. They need to practice, practice and then practice some more.
            I have recently gone to three police funerals, they are depressing and I'll probably be unconsolable at my own.
            Enjoy the day,
            Bill

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            • #36
              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
              Did your G instructor do the 21 foot drill with your class? If not, realize now that someone within 21 feet of you can stab you in a dead run before you get your gun out of the holster, on target, and rounds in the bad guy. They're thinking 21 feet isn't enough, as well, maybe 30.

              This does not mean that you kill anything within 30 feet with a knife. You will not have the chance, because your gun is in its holster. What this means is be aware of cover at all times, and be ready to retreat diagonally to some cover to buy you some time.

              Which school did you get your G at?
              I took both my D & G licenses at knights indoor shooting range on US19, the G license is taught by a retired police officer and now instructor with over 25 years on the force i believe. Yes my instructor did do the 21 foot drill and he taught us to shoot from the hip at centre mass without aiming at close targets. Also we have to realise that as the other gentleman kindly puts it practise is the key and to keep up with additional training, i have tactical handgun and advanced tactical handgun training coming up next month so im looking forward to that, i'm sure they will address this issue with knives more effectively in these classes.

              Slan
              Martin

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              • #37
                When I was still working armed security years ago our instructor would conduct the Tueller Drill http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/T.../How.Close.htm (Which is what everyone here is talking about) .I carried a S&W Model 10HB in a Safariland SS3 Holster and I was able to clear leather and be on target for center mass hits within 2 seconds but most of the time the "subject" would still be practically on top of me. Lession is, move out of way, find cover, and fire your weapon to stop the assault.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by kingsman
                  I begin my new job on Saturday night/Sunday morning. This is an armed account, but the gun is not one I am overly familiar with, and the snap break holster is something I have never used except in qualification. I just picked my gear up today. I will be practicing my draw over the next couple of days.

                  I do wish my employer would let me carry my own weapon and holster which I am familiar with and can draw very fast and very reliably.

                  But yeah. If the bad guy has a knife, I will have my gun in my hand.
                  What type of holster and Handgun are you issued?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Hospital Security Dude
                    When I was still working armed security years ago our instructor would conduct the Tueller Drill http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/T.../How.Close.htm (Which is what everyone here is talking about) .I carried a S&W Model 10HB in a Safariland SS3 Holster and I was able to clear leather and be on target for center mass hits within 2 seconds but most of the time the "subject" would still be practically on top of me. Lession is, move out of way, find cover, and fire your weapon to stop the assault.
                    QUOTED FOR TRUTH. YOU* ARE NOT WYATT EARP.

                    * You indicates any of us here, not the quoted poster.
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Hospital Security Dude
                      When I was still working armed security years ago our instructor would conduct the Tueller Drill http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/T.../How.Close.htm (Which is what everyone here is talking about) .I carried a S&W Model 10HB in a Safariland SS3 Holster and I was able to clear leather and be on target for center mass hits within 2 seconds but most of the time the "subject" would still be practically on top of me. Lession is, move out of way, find cover, and fire your weapon to stop the assault.
                      You are missing the point! You need to visit Dennis Tueller's website. Two seconds, you may have been dead for 1 and 3/10 seconds of those two seconds. Nathan has repeatedly pointed out that in such training you are already on guard; normally, in every day life, you are not. Do not press your luck. Lady Luck does not like that.
                      Enjoy the day,

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                      • #41
                        I don’t mean to come across as Superman, here just telling something.

                        I have been attacked with a knife on three separate occasions.

                        The first time it happened I was stabbed. Luckily it was in the leg.
                        I still bled like a stuck pig mostly because of the struggle afterward.

                        Both the other times the person was already close when things went bad but I wasn’t going to get stuck again and was able to react in time.

                        I was not on duty when these happened. When you go to bad places bad things can happen.

                        The point is you cannot always tell when the SWHTF but you can be prepared for when it does.

                        As Bill said try to maintain the 21ft rule. You may not be able to but try.
                        ALWAYS pay attention. I didn’t in the first case and paid for it.
                        Mr. Murphy is alive and well. Never forget about him.

                        My 2 cents.

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                        • #42
                          A certain degree of training...

                          Knife disarming is a touchy subject. It's certainly possible, but requires a "certain degree" of training that in my experience most people aren't willing to obtain. I'm sure most know that of which I speak.

                          Remember folks, mind over matter.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Bill Warnock
                            You are missing the point! You need to visit Dennis Tueller's website. Two seconds, you may have been dead for 1 and 3/10 seconds of those two seconds. Nathan has repeatedly pointed out that in such training you are already on guard; normally, in every day life, you are not. Do not press your luck. Lady Luck does not like that.
                            Enjoy the day,

                            I think you misunderstood/misread my post, I was not saying clearing leather in 2 seconds makes me some quickdraw expert, I stated that to make the point you did.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Hospital Security Dude
                              I think you misunderstood/misread my post, I was not saying clearing leather in 2 seconds makes me some quickdraw expert, I stated that to make the point you did.
                              You were right, I was able to tease out the meaning of the statement. The way in which it was worded made me feel uneasy. I've just seen too many carvings in the past 50 years of adulthood.
                              Enjoy the day,
                              Bill

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by adam12
                                Knife disarming is a touchy subject. It's certainly possible, but requires a "certain degree" of training that in my experience most people aren't willing to obtain. I'm sure most know that of which I speak.

                                Remember folks, mind over matter.
                                Doesn't really matter how much traing you get with disarming someone with a knife 9 times out of 10 if you get into it with someone who is carrying a knife you are still going to get cut to some degree. My instructor told me a story of an officer he knew who had a black belt in 4 different kinds of martial arts this guy was a bad ass (according to him) did a lot of training on disarming perps with knifes, well one night he got a call and he reponded to it and was confronted by a perp with a knife and he decided to disarm this guy himself well he was cut to the bone 4 times and was on the verge of passing out with the amount of blood he lost, only then did he take out his gun and shoot the guy.

                                So remember this when you want to be gung ho

                                Slan
                                Martin

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