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This is why you don't try to disarm guys with knives

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  • #16
    Did the instructor of the class say anything to those that were laughing? I hope he said something. Obviously none of them have encountered edged weapons yet. Been three times for me, each one very scary....

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    • #17
      The instructor was joking around with someone in the back of the class... Didn't say a word.
      "What if this is as good as it gets?" ~ Melvin Udall

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      • #18
        Originally posted by CorpSec
        When we watched Surviving Edged Weapons in skills I don't remember much laughter. Knives scare the heck out me. The 21 foot rule could easier be extended out to 25 or 30 IMO.

        It is important to practice with your holster so your draw is seamless and quick. Level three holsters are great for weapon retention, but if i have seen officers "fumble" a bit during the draw. There just isn't any excuse not to proficient in the equipment on your belt.
        As you know, there are stab vests available AND gloves with Kevlar/spectra lining that resist cutting. I personally wear the gloves because you can actually grab hold of the knife hand in a struggle and minimize hand lacerations. Obviously, it would be better if a confrontation didn't get that close, but I work unarmed. I also have access to a ballistics clipboard that can double as a shield to ward of knife thrusts. All of this is last resort defense, but it beats the alternative in my situation.
        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mr. Security
          As you know, there are stab vests available AND gloves with Kevlar/spectra lining that resist cutting. I personally wear the gloves because you can actually grab hold of the knife hand in a struggle and minimize hand lacerations. Obviously, it would be better if a confrontation didn't get that close, but I work unarmed. I also have access to a ballistics clipboard that can double as a shield to ward of knife thrusts. All of this is last resort defense, but it beats the alternative in my situation.
          Mr. Security, thank you for mentioning protective gloves. Years ago in Cincinnati, a police officer friend of my father, an officer was constantly teased by the other officers for wearing large thick locomotive engineer's gloves. This officer had a walking beat in a very, very rough part of town where several officers had been assaulted, stabbed or shot before they could reach for their sidearms. One night while on patrol a man jumped out of an alley with an upraised knife. The officer raised his gloved right hand and shot the assailant dead. He had carried a M&P .32 caliber revolver in this cavernous glove. He would have had no chance to draw his sidearm, then a M&P .38 caliber ammunition. The teasing immediately stopped and the only thing he had to do was complete a shooting report and buy a new set of gloves.
          Enjoy the day,
          Bill

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          • #20
            The cop in the video should have used 17% pepper spray made with brake cleaner. It claims it will stop a bear. Oh No! I forgot about the liability. If his back up didn't show up then that cop would have been another statistic. And all his friends would say what a shame he was such a nice guy. If he only had the right tools for the job.
            THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
            THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
            http://www.boondocksaints.com/

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            • #21
              I figure he wouldn't have cared if the spray had kerosene in it if it would have stopped the big guy.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by SecureTN
                The instructor was joking around with someone in the back of the class... Didn't say a word.
                Is this course being offered by the private correction company, or by the Sheriff that they're contracting to?

                The FOP has some very, very, nasty things to say about the private correction industry, mainly because they've agreed to help as many sworn correctional deputies as possible keep their jobs and to make as many non-sworn jails into sworn jails as possible.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by wilrobnson
                  I'd love the truth on these pics, if someone can provide it.

                  A friend from the Los Angeles PD said they were of a plainclothes officer who was attacked by a knife-wielding suspect, and another friend with a correctional institution in Oregon states they are from a California prison showing the aftermath of an inmate fight involving "shanks".

                  Either way, come at me with a knife and get shot.

                  Come at me with a straight razor and I'll shoot you, your family and friends, and people who look like them.
                  Judging from the deep appearance of the wounds it appears all of these were the result of a prolonged altercation at very close range. Number one looks like the victim tried to run away and got a meat cutter in the back for his trouble. Number two looks like a stab in response to a punch. Number three was done at toe-to-toe, in an arcing motion to the chest.

                  If faced with a knife, it is wonderful if you can get your weapon out in time to fire. The problem with it is the knife is just like an extension of the hand and blows can be executed with it just as rapidly. Skills with footwork, both evasive and aggressive, and any ruthless tactics you can muster are the only things to save you if confronted at this close of a distance.
                  "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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                  • #24
                    I begin my new job on Saturday night/Sunday morning. This is an armed account, but the gun is not one I am overly familiar with, and the snap break holster is something I have never used except in qualification. I just picked my gear up today. I will be practicing my draw over the next couple of days.

                    I do wish my employer would let me carry my own weapon and holster which I am familiar with and can draw very fast and very reliably.

                    But yeah. If the bad guy has a knife, I will have my gun in my hand.

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                    • #25
                      A lot of people are missing the point here. the suspect is not going to take out the knife and hand it to you on a silver plater so you can draw your sidearm and plant two rounds centre mass: Remember most knives are deployed at contact range and most times you wont know the suspect has the knife until you have been hit. I agree with 1'st watch relying on your sidearm=bad idea if you can draw it and fire then I commend you but until that parry the attack get elbow control punish the suspect then disengage and draw your weapon. just my humble opinion, take from it what you deem valuable discard the rest.

                      stay safe
                      Ben Wallace

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Defensive tactics
                        A lot of people are missing the point here. the suspect is not going to take out the knife and hand it to you on a silver plater so you can draw your sidearm and plant two rounds centre mass
                        I was talking about the end result. Remember kids, distance and cover are your best friends.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Defensive tactics
                          A lot of people are missing the point here. the suspect is not going to take out the knife and hand it to you on a silver plater so you can draw your sidearm and plant two rounds centre mass: Remember most knives are deployed at contact range and most times you wont know the suspect has the knife until you have been hit. I agree with 1'st watch relying on your sidearm=bad idea if you can draw it and fire then I commend you but until that parry the attack get elbow control punish the suspect then disengage and draw your weapon. just my humble opinion, take from it what you deem valuable discard the rest.

                          stay safe
                          Ben Wallace
                          Those skills are viable, but are highly specialized and only effective if practiced a lot, as in just about every day, and your hand speed is superior to the knife wielder's. This is possible, but for the average person not likely. The main point that becomes apparent, however, is footwork and positioning first, weapon second.
                          From a bladed stance this would include steps like the pendulum retreat and circling toward the suspect's blind side, toward the outside of the weapon hand. Both sets of skills require you to gain momentum and a break in the opponent's rhythm in order to apply any sort of tool. None of this is failsafe, however. You are still likely to get cut.
                          "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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                          • #28
                            I supose we all can relate to a situation that we have encountered over the years.
                            My best (worst) one was confronting an intoxicated Aboriginal (australian native) male on our hospital grounds carrying two spears.
                            We had recieved a report of a couple arguing on the grounds. We investigated and searched around the area but were unable to find the couple. Searching out further we located two males and a female heading towards the beach. We asked the trio if they had seen anything and the stated that they havent. We stated to the female that she should rest her foot as she had it strapped and was limping.
                            That is when the first male abused us in native language and then leveled a 3 tronged spear at us. After several minutes of attempting to talk the offender down the second male who had worked his way around the offender managed to get the weapon from him. The second male and our saving grace was the offenders level of intoxification which slowed his awareness.
                            The offender was caught by police and tried and got 8 months sentence for being armed in public.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Defensive tactics
                              Remember most knives are deployed at contact range and most times you wont know the suspect has the knife until you have been hit.
                              stay safe
                              Ben Wallace
                              This is very true. And I will tell you something else, you can be stabbed multiple times and not even realize what is happening. You may think you are just being punched until you realize different. I know a man who was stabbed multiple times and didn't realize it until the other guy had jumped into a car and drove away. Then he realized he was bleeding profusely and getting weak.

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                              • #30
                                I first saw these photos 2 weeks ago during my G license class the instructor showed them to us with the strict instruction that if and when you are working and someone pulls a knife on you warn them to drop the knife if they don't comply put 2 rounds in them

                                Slan
                                have a great day
                                Martin

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