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  • cuffs

    This might be a stupid question but ive always been wondering about, and it has never been brought to my attention.

    Can you cuff someone to detain them...(example) There is a fight the victom is stabbed, can u take down the suspect and cuff him untill police arrive to the scene?

  • #2
    Originally posted by lexor
    This might be a stupid question but ive always been wondering about, and it has never been brought to my attention.

    Can you cuff someone to detain them...(example) There is a fight the victom is stabbed, can u take down the suspect and cuff him untill police arrive to the scene?
    I think that it might vary from state to state, but here in Minnesota you could perform a citizen's arrest on him and part of that could include cuffing. Although, a person does not have to be cuffed to be arrested.


    In Minnesota, you are arresting them, not detaining them. With some exceptions for merchants, you generally cannot detain anyone legally. Sure, you can call the cops and then go and ask the guy a bunch of questions, and if he stays around on his own to answer them until the cops come, you have technically "detained" him. But you haven't legally detained him.

    Investigative detention where you are detaining someone long enough to determine if they are involved in a crime is generally a right reserved for only the police.

    I have performed citizen's arrests before and in each case it has been for a crime committed in my "presence".

    In Minnesota, since a stabbing is a felony, if you had good reason to believe that the person that you were cuffing/arresting did the stabbing, you could do so even if you didn't see the incident.

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    • #3
      I work mainly retail, or mall, security. The only time that I use investigative custody is for people that I or others, like witnesses, have precieved him as a physical threat. Such as a irrate female who was running around cussing and causeing a major disterbance. Also had a man that was so intoxicated that he urinated himself and was not complying with orders to vacate the premises. I was taking him into custody till local PD arrived.
      Keeping the parking lots safe, hallways moving and the Chik Fil A busy.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by lexor
        This might be a stupid question but ive always been wondering about, and it has never been brought to my attention.

        Can you cuff someone to detain them...(example) There is a fight the victom is stabbed, can u take down the suspect and cuff him untill police arrive to the scene?
        1) There is no such thing as a stupid question, if you don't know, aren't sure A S K!!!

        2) Cuffing someone is actively depriving them of their freedom, you should do a few things before you do this (IMHO):

        2.1) Check and double check your company's Standard Operating Procedures (SOP's or aka directives or the do's and do not's of yor company)

        2.2) Check and double check the state laws as they apply to you as a Security Officer. I am not sure but I would like to say that some states (few) give SO's a litle bit more lattitude in their actions. Generally, however, you are no more than a private citizen in a uniform.

        2.3) ONLY place handcuffs on someone when you abso-freakin-lutely sure you are able to legally do so. To be honest there have been times in which I have encountered a situation where I "could" have cuffed someone, but because I was not 100000% sure of this I did not.

        3) To the best of my knowledge no where is there no state or federal law called or referred to 'Resisting Arrest" that would apply to any private security officer. If they are, however, being combative when you arrest them, you are allowed (at least in Oregon) to use the force that is only necessary to arrest them. In other words if they decide to fight you, you can only use the amount of force required to subdue them (handcuff them) you CANNOT get medevial on their a$$, even if they 'deserve it'.

        The importnat thing is to remember this; COVER YOUR A$$, or simply CYA. All that you do make sure you are in the right. Pesonally, I don't do anything that will get me sued, so Billy Bob can sit on his a$$ watching Oprah and eating chips because he no longer needs to work from the money he got from sueing my dumb butt. Meanwhile I am stuck working doubles just to payoff the lawsuit that I lost, because I simply didn't CYA.

        Personally, if you do handcuff someone, you better be able to articulate to the police why you did so.

        Good luck, and welcome...
        Last edited by ValleyOne; 01-31-2007, 09:00 PM.
        ~Super Ninja Sniper~
        Corbier's Commandos

        Nemo me impune lacessit

        Grammical and Spelling errors may occur form time to time. Yoov bin worned

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        • #5
          thx, yea its in ma..
          in my detail there are alot of drug dealers ect..my hotel i secure is liek a freaken drug gateway....so im pritty busy at nite :P

          Comment


          • #6
            Sorry Lex in Ma as more than likely in most states you do not have the authority to hold or detain anyone against their will or you can be charged with kidnapping. In fact as I understand it security are not allowed to even carry cuffs on your belt unless you have schooled and received police powers.
            I carry cuffs and will use them if it means the difference of getting my lights punched out or not. You will soon find out that there is the judicial laws and the law of self presivation. I'm old school. A fine is cheaper than a funeral.
            THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
            THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
            http://www.boondocksaints.com/

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Chucky
              Sorry Lex in Ma as more than likely in most states you do not have the authority to hold or detain anyone against their will or you can be charged with kidnapping. In fact as I understand it security are not allowed to even carry cuffs on your belt unless you have schooled and received police powers.
              I carry cuffs and will use them if it means the difference of getting my lights punched out or not. You will soon find out that there is the judicial laws and the law of self presivation. I'm old school. A fine is cheaper than a funeral.
              Sorry nothing personal - But if you worked for me I'd fire you. If the law says you are not allowed to carry handcuffs & you still do you are a liability to the company AND yourself.
              I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
              Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

              Comment


              • #8
                If you have no received training in how to properly place someone under arrest then I would strongly suggest against doing so. In Canada we can arrest under section 494 (b) of the criminal code "anyone authorized by the owner of property may arrest without warrant for any offence commited on or in relation to the property" Upon arrest the suspect must be promptly informed of the reason for the arrest and there right to legal advice. In my company we are taught to handcuff a suspect only if they are co operative the logic being that if they are full on resisting arrest then you are more then likely going to cut someone up (it is tough if not impossible to double lock handcuffs when someone is fighting you) you can either ground them and hope the police arrive soon or you can let the suspect flee and take a good description for the police when they arrive on scene. keep in mind in Canada placing someone under arrest is defined as "the taking into custody of someone to answer for an offense" whether I place them in handcuffs or say "sir your under arrest you need to come with me to the security office to wait for the police" In Canada there is also no legislation pertaining to the purchase of handcuffs (although you will be required to show Ministry ID) I agree with hotel security If you dont have the training and authorization forget about wearing cuffs.

                stay safe
                Ben

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by lexor
                  thx, yea its in ma..
                  in my detail there are alot of drug dealers ect..my hotel i secure is liek a freaken drug gateway....so im pritty busy at nite :P
                  As others have said...

                  1. Every state allows for the detention of a felony that you observe. This is the basis of "citizen's arrest," and why every state has it. Its the misdemeanors that states don't agree on.

                  2. You have no civil immunity when making a citizen's arrest unless your state grants that immunity. Pray your case is good, because they can sue you if they walk.

                  3. Police will not call it a "citizen's arrest" in most cases, they call it a "detention."

                  4. If you are not trained in defensive tactics and arrest tactics, how will you accomplish the task of overcoming their resistance to your detention/arrest lawfully? Or even tactically.

                  5. Some states outlaw private citizens, or just some classes ( security ) from having restraints of any type, while others outlaw handcuffs.

                  6. Basically, if you have to ask, don't.
                  Some Kind of Commando Leader

                  "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Cuffing, Oh boy
                    this is one of those grey areas here in Columbus. I have cuffed several
                    subjects in the past because they were caught doing a felony type crime. such as the guy 2 years ago who robbed a guy at knife point at an ATM located in our patrol area. (after I left this department for a better paying one, I guy was shot and killed at this same ATM out of a robbery, this made the news last summer)

                    I have never had any trouble with P.D. about cuffing because I will not cuff anyone unless it is an incident like above. Don't want to be charged with kidnapping or something if I use cuffs for anything less, its happend to other Security Officers here in the past.

                    I think cuffing boils down to the security enviroment that you work in such as retail. Store detectives are given more respect from P.D. then security patrol officers on cuffing here. Same goes for bank guards or Officers working government contracts these guys are never given any crap about cuffing. but Officers working apartments, hotels, car lots, and the like are not greeted to friendly by P.D. when a subject is cuffed.
                    SGT. WARD

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                    • #11
                      The only thing it depends on is the law. Statutory Law, Common Law, and Case Law. If the police arrest you for a lawful event (cuffing someone pursuant to a citizen's arrest or merchant detention), unless they can figure out right quick how to word it so there was "good faith immunity," you can file civil suit.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        We basically have a no touch policy at the Refinery. We aren't issued cuffs and do not detain anyone. We deal mainly with employees, outside contractors that work inside the refinery, and office staff. These numbers sore into the thousands during the day {we're a pretty big place} - We've found that by obtaining the Employee or Contractor Badge or the number from it we can do what we need to as far as cutting them off, locating them for an arrest by the Police Department if nesessary, and general reporting to thier immdeiate supervisor.

                        Our Electronic Badge System is controlled by our communications center located off site about 20 miles away. By calling in a badge number the center can disable it with one key stroke. The offender can not get out of the facility nor back into the facility until we have investigated and handled the problem.

                        We do however physically stop and temporarilly detain persons who violate the company policies with regards to driving {Speeding, failure to observe traffic signs, failure to wear seat-belts} and we issue citations that eventually through a point system can terminate the employee or suspend thier driving privlidges for a year on the facility.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Almost all of this on this forum reject the idea that we are want-a-bees. Yet we seem to forget that there is a big difference in policing & security. For the most part police enforce laws, security enforces rules. Some of us have other safety type duties such as fire watch, first aid service etc. I estimate that 90% of my job does not involve dealing with criminal matters. I carry cuffs. None of my staff do. In 30+ years I've used them maybe 10 times.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HotelSecurity
                            Sorry nothing personal - But if you worked for me I'd fire you. If the law says you are not allowed to carry handcuffs & you still do you are a liability to the company AND yourself.
                            I don't know if you have ever dealt with someone on meth determined to get what he needs free. My post is in a drug distribution center. Armed and with some civilians for back up. Ok the guy comes in and he's bug eyed. Tweakers have exceptional strenth. It takes five guys to subdue this guy. He will not stop fighting. We are all getting to the end of our strenth. The cops are still 5 mins away.

                            Now and I mean right now something has to be done or this guy breaks free, Ok I reach for my cuffs as 1 more tool. Oh NO! I don't have cuffs because they may be a liability. At this point do I really care about the company that put me in this situation or the cops arresting me for having cuffs? Or do I say I lived through another day on the job hi kids. Or do I simply let him come at me with out a weapon and tell the judge that I put a 40 cal hollow point in his head because I was in fear for my life and no other lessor means were available to me. If this was a real world scenario all these decisions would have to be made in less time then it took you to read this. This is what I do for real and very well could be real.

                            If you still would want to fire me then would you be so kind as to sign the form so that I may collect unemployment compensation?
                            THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
                            THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
                            http://www.boondocksaints.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chucky
                              I don't know if you have ever dealt with someone on meth determined to get what he needs free. My post is in a drug distribution center. Armed and with some civilians for back up. Ok the guy comes in and he's bug eyed. Tweakers have exceptional strenth. It takes five guys to subdue this guy. He will not stop fighting. We are all getting to the end of our strenth. The cops are still 5 mins away.

                              Now and I mean right now something has to be done or this guy breaks free, Ok I reach for my cuffs as 1 more tool. Oh NO! I don't have cuffs because they may be a liability. At this point do I really care about the company that put me in this situation or the cops arresting me for having cuffs? Or do I say I lived through another day on the job hi kids. Or do I simply let him come at me with out a weapon and tell the judge that I put a 40 cal hollow point in his head because I was in fear for my life and no other lessor means were available to me. If this was a real world scenario all these decisions would have to be made in less time then it took you to read this. This is what I do for real and very well could be real.

                              If you still would want to fire me then would you be so kind as to sign the form so that I may collect unemployment compensation?
                              I actually agree with Hotel Security on this. If you are not allowed to carry something, regardless of what it is, then you simply shouldn't. If you disagree, you don't ignore them and go ahead and carry it anyways. You are better of starting some dialogue with the policy makers, and argue as to why you need cuffs. Based on what you wrote, you can make a solid arguement. As far as the unemployment insurance comment... good luck on that. Most states will only grant unemployment benefits if you lost your job at no fault of your own. Termination due to carrying unauthorized equipment won't get you a dime.
                              "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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