One of the reasons I hate college kids...

[Marchetti, David, M]

Um whats a nerve pinch Is that like a pressure point?

Yup, :O) Your actually pinching a nerve very painful if you know what your doing. In some cases I have seen experts use this to a point they can cause an arm to pretty much go limp while causing great and extreme pain to a suspect, some can actually make areas of the body go numb and become non responsive.

[Marchetti, David, M]

I must be coming down with something. I agree with David in this situation!

THANK YOU HOTEL, your in line with my perspective, tonight I ran it past a co-worker of mine and described it to him, 20 years security and 18 years with a county sheriff office he agreed with me 100% and stated in effect here in Connecticut such actions would get the police officers arrested based on excessive use of force, which constitutes assault. So it's not me that's screw up, nor you, based on our professional opinions :O)

[Marchetti, David, M]

While that may be your use of force policy. Most departments in Ca have a use of force policy that goes like this.

Verbal
Taser
Physical
OC
Baton
Firearm

This may just be a difference in localities or somethign but that is the use fo force policy that most departments i have worked with use.

Ours is verbal, physical, oc, taser, baton, firearm :O) least amount of force needed and the less risk of injury to a suspect. I have never heard of anyone actually dying on the basis they got maced although I am sure it's happened somewhere, but I am sure the number is very low. Now many have died after being tasored and that's in the media.

[Marchetti, David, M]

You forgot step 7, where you shoot them in the leg (and spend 20 years on vacation, courtesy of the Federal Bureau of Prisons)......

I would pay money to see you use some of your Kung Fu on someone. $20 for you if any of it actually works lol. Leg Sweeps lol, that one is priceless.

By the way, "Blunt Trauma Force" (sounds like a kids cartoon, like Power Rangers)? I laughed hard when I read that. "Blunt Force Trauma" is a medical diagnosis, it doesn't describe what happens when you hit someone with a baton, unless that Baton causes internal injuries, which would then be diagnosed as BFT.....

Don't use big words if you don't know what they mean.....

Ummm o.k. clown now go stand in the corner like a good little boy and let the adults talk.

[GCMC Security]

Ours is verbal, physical, oc, taser, baton, firearm :O) least amount of force needed and the less risk of injury to a suspect. I have never heard of anyone actually dying on the basis they got maced although I am sure it's happened somewhere, but I am sure the number is very low. Now many have died after being tasored and that's in the media.

Yup Believe everything you see in the media.... And I'm glad everyone there where you are at is using Taser safe OC.

[Marchetti, David, M]

Guys, the key thing here is escalation/deescalation. When you use any type of force, you must back off as soon as compliance is acchieved, then escalate if resistance is once again the case.

Agree, but also the objective is to end the incident asap so it does not escalate in allowing it to do so those police officers could have been faced with a violent mob and heavily out numbers " I would not want to be in that situation ". This of this your one of the officers involved and the crowd of 40 turn on you, your dead meat. By prolonging the situation they allowed it to escalate possibly endangering their own safety and the safety of others.

[Marchetti, David, M]

Yup Believe everything you see in the media.... And I'm glad everyone there where you are at is using Taser safe OC.

We had a guy here that died after being tasored, the M.E. found nothing as the cause his heart just stopped afterwards. Some people may be more sensitive to electrical jolts, salt i.e. sodium is a conductor of electricity when mixed with other properties. We are all familiar with sodium chloride or common salt. Sodium chloride is formed by the combination of sodium and chlorine. Because of their chemistry, sodium tends to lose an electron when it reacts and chlorine tends to gain an electron and so when these two combine to form sodium chloride, one electron is "transferred" from a sodium atom to a chlorine atom. So we have sodium ions which are positively charged and chloride ions which are negatively charged. Since opposites attract (an electrostatic attraction) the ions attract one another and where we have enough of these we get the solid we all know. In this solid the attraction between the sodium ions and the chloride ions is strong and it is difficult to separate them. Sodium chloride is an ionic compound, that is the components are present as ions. If we try to pass an electric current through sodium chloride we find that there is considerable resistance to the flow - salt doesn’t conduct. But what happens if we throw some salt into water ? The solid dissolves, and the ions separate. What we get is a solution which contains sodium cations (positive ions) and chloride anions (negative ions). In this case these ions can move fairly freely and the solution can conduct. We get a similar result if we melt sodium chloride, molten salt also conducts.

Is it posable or feasible that someone with a high level of sodium in their body does not get the resistance level of a normal person, but in actuality gets a higher level of shock due to excess sodium, a shock per say to the heart which causes defibrillation and possibly death?. Chemistry dictates yes maybe. Well worth a medical study thus maybe explaining why some have died after being subject to a tasor charge.

[Black Caesar]

Ummm o.k. clown now go stand in the corner like a good little boy and let the adults talk.

ROFL

The sad thing is that's the best you can come up with. I bet you really will rename your security company "Blunt Trauma Force-1" lol.

By the way, it's "Tasered" NOT "Tasored". You too will reach adulthood when you can "learn to spell good"......

Are you even certified to use a Taser? (Don't answer, I already know lol).

[Arff312]

Ours is verbal, physical, oc, taser, baton, firearm :O) least amount of force needed and the less risk of injury to a suspect. I have never heard of anyone actually dying on the basis they got maced although I am sure it's happened somewhere, but I am sure the number is very low. Now many have died after being tasored and that's in the media.

As i said it differs regionally ( i know this becuase my dad is PAPD in Ny and i work in CA). You would think itd be the same but there are a lot of differences too. the reason taser has been place before OC and physocal is due to the sort lasting effects. When OC first came out there were claims of deaths caused by OC same as taser but they were all knocked down Taser had never directly caused a death. There is always underlying and at the time unkown medical , extenuating circumstances in these cases. As with any new technology people try to discredit it when it hits the streets.

[Marchetti, David, M]

As i said it differs regionally ( i know this becuase my dad is PAPD in Ny and i work in CA). You would think itd be the same but there are a lot of differences too. the reason taser has been place before OC and physocal is due to the sort lasting effects. When OC first came out there were claims of deaths caused by OC same as taser but they were all knocked down Taser had never directly caused a death. There is always underlying and at the time unkown medical , extenuating circumstances in these cases. As with any new technology people try to discredit it when it hits the streets.

I know it varies all over it's like locals will not ram a vehicle off the road to stop it here, but state troopers will :O) kinda shocks people when a trooper does ram someone laughing why troopers cars have ram bars on em. I am curious now if the sodium situation could exist medically speaking although. Next time I see a buddy of mine that's an E.R. Doctor I'll ask him and see what he thinks, wish I knew someone in the M.E.'s office :O( I have another friend that's in electrical work who's been zapped a few times, I'll ask him if it seems to hurt more when he's been sweating i.e. sodium in sweat.

[ValleyOne]

I read some of these posts on my way out the door this afternoon, I knew I should've kicked out a little reply then...

I would tell the cops to knock it off and just cuff the damn kid and take him, or else I would be sending up a sworn incident affidavit to the Chief State's Attorney ( Connecticut's Top Cop ) citing the states assualt charges, excessive use of a tasor, any physical evidence I could gather like that video, witnesses names, and request criminal charges be brought against the police officers. Then I would make sure that kids lawyers get a hard copy of everything, that's what I would do in my role as a state licensed security officer.

Legally you can not tasor someone several times on the basis they refuse to get up and walk

Dude, WTF?!? I am starting to think that you are actually a active member the the ACLU. (Anti-Cop Lawyer Union). This is another example of your Super Ninja activities and why you not winning over any hearts and minds here.

The subject in question was passively resisting a lawful arrest based on the probable cause that this person was unauthorized to even be in the library at the time (approx. 2330hrs local time). The subject refused to furnish a student ID-which BTW is all the CSO asked to see. The police were summoned to come and take the appropriate action. What was not seen on the video was that once the subject observed the police officer enters the library he immediately got up and started for the door. The person knows he doesn't have his ID, and knows that he's 'probably' in trouble. I believe signs are posted at all entrances that the library is only for student usage. When confronted by the police he refuses to cooperate and is subsequently placed under arrest, at which point he becomes verbally hostile (remember libraries are for you indoor voice ), he resists arrest, and he starts playing the crowd. He did this in a attempt to psychologically control the officers, IMHO, he was trying to make as big as a scene as he could in order to influence the officer's actions/decision making process. Even as a security officer I have had this happen to me on several occasions. My actions were justified, but by trying to influence any by-standers the offender was seeking a opportunity for me to second guess myself.

Back on point... The officers administered dry stuns, or drive stuns. Basically, they took the projectiles off of the taser, and used it as a contact taser. He was subjected to moderate pain yes, BUT every single person I have ever seen receive this type of tase is able to stand up. Did you notice that the officers did not request him to stand up WHILE they were tasing him? By passively resisting arrest the subject was still resisting arrest. By repeating the dry stuns the officer were seeking pain compliance. ALL THE SUBJECT HAD TO DO WAS STAND UP. Instead he refused to cooperate. A reason the officer's did not just go Dave Marcetti, Super Ninja on him was safety. The safety of the officers and the subject himself. If the officers were to go and phusically hands on with the subject what is stopping him from 'going limp' while they are escorting him down the stairs and injuring himself AND the officers? By continually giving the dry stuns they were forcing the subject to comply.

What would the subject be screaming of the officer did do, as you insist they should have done, pig pile on him and beat him into submission? What do you think would have then happened?

The subject wasn't injured, and more importantly neither were the officers.

I would suspect that the only security officer present were employed by the University, if you were to start working the crowd and doing leg work for the subject's behalf in obtaining witness statements to be used against the University, I assure you would be seeking employment in the morning. As I would venture to guess that the security dept is closely associated with the police dept.

Personally, I would've loved to seen two officers go outside, pop thier trunks and come back in MK46's and pepper the entire crowd.

[ValleyOne]

the objective is to end the incident asap so it does not escalate in allowing it to do so those police officers could have been faced with a violent mob and heavily out numbers " I would not want to be in that situation ". This of this your one of the officers involved and the crowd of 40 turn on you, your dead meat. By prolonging the situation they allowed it to escalate possibly endangering their own safety and the safety of others.

Well, the crowd didn't over run them did they? NOPE, why you might ask Super Ninja? Because the cops CONTROLLED THE SCENE. Yeah, it was loud and there were some emotional twits crying, but they stayed put...

[Dam Guard]

Good job !

The officers got him out of the building unharmed and not man handled. Which is exactly what would have happened back in the 80's at the local college that I worked near. They didn't have many officers back then and many times would call for assistance from the city. We would have went in and asked him to leave and if he refused he would have been doing his protesting in the air as we would have jacked him right off his feet and on to
the floor and then bodily carried him out in cuffs with his feet not touching the floor. If he continued to resist by kicking and wrestling around one of us would most likely have used a pressure point technique. If that didn't work then a lateral vascular restraint would have been applied, the whole time he would be being force walked/carried towards the exit. We always showed up with several officers when we were contacted by the campus police because they only called us when they truly needed help and we always moved fast when someone refused to comply with commands. And if some one had dropped one of us like I saw someone say back in the thread that someone would have been taken out in the same fashion but probably after having their legs knocked out from under them by a PR24. I know because this same type situation happened while I was on duty once and this is pretty much how it went down. When we carried them out we did it by going between their legs with the PR24, turning it sideways and pulling back while lifting up. Brings em right up on their toes or higher if you lift far enough. You can sure escort them out the door and into a cruiser like that. I have had to carry some into the jail with that technique too, if they refused to walk in under their own power. You have to keep a real strong grasp on the back of the collar when you do this, to keep them from falling forward face first. So be sure you are strong enough to lift the person if you ever try this particular technique.

[Marchetti, David, M]

Personally, I would've loved to seen two officers go outside, pop thier trunks and come back in MK46's and pepper the entire crowd.

What dude, you never had a suspect go limp noodle on ya laughing, shopliftters do it on occassion ya cuff em and drag em or you just pick them up and carry them out lol does not mean your lawfully permitted to kick the suspect, hit the suspect, or zap the suspect dauhhhh. Based on your statement of MK46's and pepper spray, do you know how much you sound mentally challanged?. Get some help son.

[Marchetti, David, M]

We would have went in and asked him to leave and if he refused he would have been doing his protesting in the air as we would have jacked him right off his feet and on to the floor and then bodily carried him out in cuffs with his feet not touching the floor. If he continued to resist by kicking and wrestling around one of us would most likely have used a pressure point technique. If that didn't work then a lateral vascular restraint would have been applied, the whole time he would be being force walked/carried towards the exit. We always showed up with several officers when we were contacted by the campus police because they only called us when they truly needed help and we always moved fast when someone refused to comply with commands. I have had to carry some into the jail with that technique too, if they refused to walk in under their own power. You have to keep a real strong grasp on the back of the collar when you do this, to keep them from falling forward face first. So be sure you are strong enough to lift the person if you ever try this particular technique.

Thank you Dam Guard !!! as I said you use the minimal amount of force and carry the little prick suspect if you have to and end it asap. Tips his hat you sound like a professional who knows what he's doing. Your in line with Hotel, myself, and a buddy of mine that's a former sheriff. I could not see you based on your statements to keep hitting someone or zapping them on the basis they did not comply with your order to get up. It's guys like you that GIVE OUR PROFESSION A GOOD NAME damn you :O) Tips his hat out of respect.