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  • Marchetti, David, M
    replied
    Originally posted by Black Caesar
    You forgot step 7, where you shoot them in the leg (and spend 20 years on vacation, courtesy of the Federal Bureau of Prisons)......

    I would pay money to see you use some of your Kung Fu on someone. $20 for you if any of it actually works lol. Leg Sweeps lol, that one is priceless.

    By the way, "Blunt Trauma Force" (sounds like a kids cartoon, like Power Rangers)? I laughed hard when I read that. "Blunt Force Trauma" is a medical diagnosis, it doesn't describe what happens when you hit someone with a baton, unless that Baton causes internal injuries, which would then be diagnosed as BFT.....

    Don't use big words if you don't know what they mean.....
    Ummm o.k. clown now go stand in the corner like a good little boy and let the adults talk.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marchetti, David, M
    replied
    Originally posted by Arff312
    While that may be your use of force policy. Most departments in Ca have a use of force policy that goes like this.

    Verbal
    Taser
    Physical
    OC
    Baton
    Firearm

    This may just be a difference in localities or somethign but that is the use fo force policy that most departments i have worked with use.
    Ours is verbal, physical, oc, taser, baton, firearm :O) least amount of force needed and the less risk of injury to a suspect. I have never heard of anyone actually dying on the basis they got maced although I am sure it's happened somewhere, but I am sure the number is very low. Now many have died after being tasored and that's in the media.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marchetti, David, M
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    I must be coming down with something. I agree with David in this situation!
    THANK YOU HOTEL, your in line with my perspective, tonight I ran it past a co-worker of mine and described it to him, 20 years security and 18 years with a county sheriff office he agreed with me 100% and stated in effect here in Connecticut such actions would get the police officers arrested based on excessive use of force, which constitutes assault. So it's not me that's screw up, nor you, based on our professional opinions :O)
    Last edited by Marchetti, David, M; 01-26-2007, 02:07 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marchetti, David, M
    replied
    Originally posted by bigdog
    Um whats a nerve pinch Is that like a pressure point?
    Yup, :O) Your actually pinching a nerve very painful if you know what your doing. In some cases I have seen experts use this to a point they can cause an arm to pretty much go limp while causing great and extreme pain to a suspect, some can actually make areas of the body go numb and become non responsive.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeff194307
    replied
    Guys, the key thing here is escalation/deescalation. When you use any type of force, you must back off as soon as compliance is acchieved, then escalate if resistance is once again the case.

    Leave a comment:


  • Black Caesar
    replied
    Originally posted by Marchetti, David, M
    I really think it's time you pull your head out of your ......, why on the basis I don't agree with your perspective, I do not support excesssive use of a tasor devise, or any force for that matter. I did not ask for nor sought your OPINION, as it means nothing to me. I don't know what clown trained you to be in this field but my training years ago was very clear in handling any incident involving use of force.

    ( Step One ) First use clear and precise communication to a suspect, make a determination if they are drug/ alcohol influenced, look for signs of mental defect in the person, are they stoned, retarded, perhaps took a prescribed drug that's having a negative effect on them, you should be looking for signs of the persons mental state before you take " authoritative " action that's just plain common sense. i.e. the guy stunned by police as he was just walking around harmless after he moved to an area and police were notified the fellow had a medical problem - walking seizures. Some of the perspectives on these boards make me wonder what type of so called professionals are protecting people and public, your lack luster limited mentality of police being so god like disgusts me and repulses me as a human being and American citizen.

    ( Step Two ) If you can not get cooporation by means communication, then limited force is authorized to effect an arrest, attempt to place the individuals arm behind his back and proceed with cuffing.

    ( Step Three ) If the suspect fights the arrest being made, apply a tactical restraint hold and apply a nerve pinch. If either fail or additional officers are avalable sweep the suspects legs, get them down, and apply a tactical restraint so cuffs can be applied. With several officers you should not have too much problem cuffing a suspect unless you and your officers are wussies.

    ( Step Four ) If above steps fail, attempt to use mace or pepper spray on subject to gain compliance. Repeat apply a tactical restraint hold and apply a nerve pinch. If either fail or additional officers are avalable sweep the suspects legs, get them down, and apply a tactical restraint so cuffs can be applied.

    ( Step Five ) If above steps fail, use tasor devise, stun suspect, apply a tactical restraint hold and apply a nerve pinch. If either fail or additional officers are avalable sweep the suspects legs, get them down, and apply a tactical restraint so cuffs can be applied.

    ( Step Six ) If above steps fail, use night stick ( blunt trauma force ) on legs, arms, midsection, apply a tactical restraint hold and apply a nerve pinch. If either fail or additional officers are available sweep the suspects legs, get them down, and apply a tactical restraint so cuffs can be applied.

    The minimal amount of force should always be used first, that's the law Junior. If you can not manage a suspect with tactical restraint holds, a nerve pinch, a leg sweep take down, mace/ pepper spray, or a nightstick and tasor and support from another officer to make an arrest you have no business carrying any badge. The actions of these police officers were excessive and a joke, I'd be ashamed to even be associated with them, and I would not want you as a back up officer by many means. But to keep tasoring someone on the basis they refuse to get up and walk is a criminal act by most standards anywhere.

    You forgot step 7, where you shoot them in the leg (and spend 20 years on vacation, courtesy of the Federal Bureau of Prisons)......

    I would pay money to see you use some of your Kung Fu on someone. $20 for you if any of it actually works lol. Leg Sweeps lol, that one is priceless.

    By the way, "Blunt Trauma Force" (sounds like a kids cartoon, like Power Rangers)? I laughed hard when I read that. "Blunt Force Trauma" is a medical diagnosis, it doesn't describe what happens when you hit someone with a baton, unless that Baton causes internal injuries, which would then be diagnosed as BFT.....

    Don't use big words if you don't know what they mean.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Arff312
    replied
    Originally posted by Marchetti, David, M
    I really think it's time you pull your head out of your ......, why on the basis I don't agree with your perspective, I do not support excesssive use of a tasor devise, or any force for that matter. I did not ask for nor sought your OPINION, as it means nothing to me. I don't know what clown trained you to be in this field but my training years ago was very clear in handling any incident involving use of force.

    ( Step One ) First use clear and precise communication to a suspect, make a determination if they are drug/ alcohol influenced, look for signs of mental defect in the person, are they stoned, retarded, perhaps took a prescribed drug that's having a negative effect on them, you should be looking for signs of the persons mental state before you take " authoritative " action that's just plain common sense. i.e. the guy stunned by police as he was just walking around harmless after he moved to an area and police were notified the fellow had a medical problem - walking seizures. Some of the perspectives on these boards make me wonder what type of so called professionals are protecting people and public, your lack luster limited mentality of police being so god like disgusts me and repulses me as a human being and American citizen.

    ( Step Two ) If you can not get cooporation by means communication, then limited force is authorized to effect an arrest, attempt to place the individuals arm behind his back and proceed with cuffing.

    ( Step Three ) If the suspect fights the arrest being made, apply a tactical restraint hold and apply a nerve pinch. If either fail or additional officers are avalable sweep the suspects legs, get them down, and apply a tactical restraint so cuffs can be applied. With several officers you should not have too much problem cuffing a suspect unless you and your officers are wussies.

    ( Step Four ) If above steps fail, attempt to use mace or pepper spray on subject to gain compliance. Repeat apply a tactical restraint hold and apply a nerve pinch. If either fail or additional officers are avalable sweep the suspects legs, get them down, and apply a tactical restraint so cuffs can be applied.

    ( Step Five ) If above steps fail, use tasor devise, stun suspect, apply a tactical restraint hold and apply a nerve pinch. If either fail or additional officers are avalable sweep the suspects legs, get them down, and apply a tactical restraint so cuffs can be applied.

    ( Step Six ) If above steps fail, use night stick ( blunt trauma force ) on legs, arms, midsection, apply a tactical restraint hold and apply a nerve pinch. If either fail or additional officers are available sweep the suspects legs, get them down, and apply a tactical restraint so cuffs can be applied.

    The minimal amount of force should always be used first, that's the law Junior. If you can not manage a suspect with tactical restraint holds, a nerve pinch, a leg sweep take down, mace/ pepper spray, or a nightstick and tasor and support from another officer to make an arrest you have no business carrying any badge. The actions of these police officers were excessive and a joke, I'd be ashamed to even be associated with them, and I would not want you as a back up officer by many means. But to keep tasoring someone on the basis they refuse to get up and walk is a criminal act by most standards anywhere.
    While that may be your use of force policy. Most departments in Ca have a use of force policy that goes like this.

    Verbal
    Taser
    Physical
    OC
    Baton
    Firearm

    This may just be a difference in localities or somethign but that is the use fo force policy that most departments i have worked with use.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    I must be coming down with something. I agree with David in this situation!

    Leave a comment:


  • T202
    replied
    Originally posted by bigdog
    Um whats a nerve pinch Is that like a pressure point?
    You have to be a Vulcan.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcan_nerve_pinch

    Leave a comment:


  • bigdog
    replied
    Um whats a nerve pinch Is that like a pressure point?

    Leave a comment:


  • Marchetti, David, M
    replied
    Originally posted by locknid
    I hope it was not a set-up, if so I would hate to have been the one to pull the short straw to get tased 8 times. And for the person who commented to tase and then cuff and drag out, or that it was just passive resistance. You can keep tasing after giving more commands and not having the person comply. One can still use force against a passive resistor, I have to do it all the time. Often times when making an arrest you have not searched the subject, or not a complete search so the subject can easily have a hidden weapon they are trying to grab for, or they are trying to pass time until friends or family come to try and aid the subject. I have seen it all. Also there were many other people in the library who could possibly make the situation more dangerous.

    Too bad most people think that after a tase the subject can not move or is still in pain, which isn't true. For the most part people regain control of their body immediatly have the tase and would be able to easily follow the commands of the officer.
    I agree they should have ended it ASAP, tasored the suspect, cuffed him, and removed him from the scene, it was in my perspective excessive.

    Leave a comment:


  • locknid
    replied
    I hope it was not a set-up, if so I would hate to have been the one to pull the short straw to get tased 8 times. And for the person who commented to tase and then cuff and drag out, or that it was just passive resistance. You can keep tasing after giving more commands and not having the person comply. One can still use force against a passive resistor, I have to do it all the time. Often times when making an arrest you have not searched the subject, or not a complete search so the subject can easily have a hidden weapon they are trying to grab for, or they are trying to pass time until friends or family come to try and aid the subject. I have seen it all. Also there were many other people in the library who could possibly make the situation more dangerous.

    Too bad most people think that after a tase the subject can not move or is still in pain, which isn't true. For the most part people regain control of their body immediatly have the tase and would be able to easily follow the commands of the officer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marchetti, David, M
    replied
    Originally posted by Security Vet
    Dave,

    I really think it's time you took a deep breath and started to think before you post.
    I really think it's time you pull your head out of your ......, why on the basis I don't agree with your perspective, I do not support excesssive use of a tasor devise, or any force for that matter. I did not ask for nor sought your OPINION, as it means nothing to me. I don't know what clown trained you to be in this field but my training years ago was very clear in handling any incident involving use of force.

    ( Step One ) First use clear and precise communication to a suspect, make a determination if they are drug/ alcohol influenced, look for signs of mental defect in the person, are they stoned, retarded, perhaps took a prescribed drug that's having a negative effect on them, you should be looking for signs of the persons mental state before you take " authoritative " action that's just plain common sense. i.e. the guy stunned by police as he was just walking around harmless after he moved to an area and police were notified the fellow had a medical problem - walking seizures. Some of the perspectives on these boards make me wonder what type of so called professionals are protecting people and public, your lack luster limited mentality of police being so god like disgusts me and repulses me as a human being and American citizen.

    ( Step Two ) If you can not get cooporation by means communication, then limited force is authorized to effect an arrest, attempt to place the individuals arm behind his back and proceed with cuffing.

    ( Step Three ) If the suspect fights the arrest being made, apply a tactical restraint hold and apply a nerve pinch. If either fail or additional officers are avalable sweep the suspects legs, get them down, and apply a tactical restraint so cuffs can be applied. With several officers you should not have too much problem cuffing a suspect unless you and your officers are wussies.

    ( Step Four ) If above steps fail, attempt to use mace or pepper spray on subject to gain compliance. Repeat apply a tactical restraint hold and apply a nerve pinch. If either fail or additional officers are avalable sweep the suspects legs, get them down, and apply a tactical restraint so cuffs can be applied.

    ( Step Five ) If above steps fail, use tasor devise, stun suspect, apply a tactical restraint hold and apply a nerve pinch. If either fail or additional officers are avalable sweep the suspects legs, get them down, and apply a tactical restraint so cuffs can be applied.

    ( Step Six ) If above steps fail, use night stick ( blunt trauma force ) on legs, arms, midsection, apply a tactical restraint hold and apply a nerve pinch. If either fail or additional officers are available sweep the suspects legs, get them down, and apply a tactical restraint so cuffs can be applied.

    The minimal amount of force should always be used first, that's the law Junior. If you can not manage a suspect with tactical restraint holds, a nerve pinch, a leg sweep take down, mace/ pepper spray, or a nightstick and tasor and support from another officer to make an arrest you have no business carrying any badge. The actions of these police officers were excessive and a joke, I'd be ashamed to even be associated with them, and I would not want you as a back up officer by many means. But to keep tasoring someone on the basis they refuse to get up and walk is a criminal act by most standards anywhere.
    Last edited by Marchetti, David, M; 01-25-2007, 06:01 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • copelandamuffy
    replied
    I have been offered a good paying job working Campus Security, with
    my contract Security Guard company
    I knew I would be dealing with spoiled rich kids whose Mommy and
    Daddy would back them up no matter what they did on Campus

    I'll stay at my Industrial Site with water leaking from roofs onto
    live 480 volt circuit breakers, rats in the buildings the size of
    Buicks, and bitter cold walking on patrols in winter, and
    broil in summer. Less pay, but I get to keep my sanity and dignity.

    Leave a comment:


  • Security Vet
    replied
    Dave,

    I really think it's time you took a deep breath and started to think before you post.

    Leave a comment:

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