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O.C. / Mace what brand works best

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  • FDG06
    replied
    I've carried & used First Defense with mixed results, I personally found it way too weak..when I want OC, I want effective OC now.
    I moved to Fox lab's becaue my dept issued first defense (because its cheap) and have not had an occasion when it failed to take the fight out of the subject, this includes a charging american pit bull which weighed about 120lbs which I hit with my riot fogger while off duty, sadly it also drifted to a the by-stander who I was protecting..oh well, I told him to back out.
    The % & SHU numbers are important, some stuff is just junk dispite that though, you need to look at spray patterns, duration & dispersion, bleed down, etc and talk to guys who have used OC in the real world and see what they say.
    From what I have seen & heard, as well as my own experience, Fox labs is among the best out there, have heard the same about Freeze +P, but have not used it myself.
    Some PD's will not allow thier officers to carry Fox or Freeze, due to liability concerns over being too hot & thus subject to 'excessive force issues', so might want to check dept policy before buying your own to carry on duty.

    Taser is a fight stopper..period, its more fool proof then OC and effects only the lucky recieving party..when you OC, its near impossible not to get secondary contamination to somebody or something, you have to watch wind direction, other officers, etc, then in your patro car (if your a PO & transport), etc. You have to legally assist with decon in most jurisdictions & always if requested and your dealing with unknown body fluid from the sprayee & possible contact with it...I've personally seen a perp, grab a handfull of his snot mixed with OC foam (junk), after getting hosed & throw it at another officer..no matter how much fun that was to watch, it still serious enough that if I can taser 1st, I would. In fact you can always follow up with OC after taser if the situation warrants it (it wont), but not the other way around..something about combustion if an alcohal based OC was used...
    Yoda

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  • ocp
    replied
    Here in Ohio the State Patrol uses Freeze +p, Columbus Police use Mark 4, and County uses FOX. Lately though I have seen the Police deploy their Tasers before they go for the spray. I'm thinking its because they don't want to get OC on them or dont want to transport a subject in their car that has been sprayed.

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  • Special Investigator
    Member

  • Special Investigator
    replied


    I use/carry First Defense® X2™, MK-4 Pepper Spray (Stream)

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  • Dam Guard
    Member

  • Dam Guard
    replied
    I think for the most part it is just a numbers game with all the SHU'S and so on. I agree that capsaicinoid content is what is considered to be most important. I know that some people use (this) formula to get some idea of how hot or good a spray is. You multiply the % times the SHU'S. So lets take Fox Labs for example. 2% x 5.3 million SHU = 106,000 . Some people call this the scoville content and some call it Out of Nozzle Heat or ONH. Sabre Red is
    10% x 2 million SHU = 200,000 ONH. Now, according to this Sabre Red is much hotter than Fox. Well, what about Punch ? Punch II and III are both rated at 5% x 2 million = 100,000 ONH On the other hand Freeze plus P is 1% x 2 million SHU = 20,000 but you have to remember that freeze plus p also contains 1% CS. I have been sprayed with BG-V 5% RATED 2 MILLION SHU'S and also with Freeze Plus P. The Freeze plus P was just as, if not more hot than the BG-V and was just all around more effective when used on me.
    I recommend Freeze Plus P. It is interesting to me that a 10% 1 million Shu spray has the same ONH as a 5% 2 million shu spray. And that Fox Labs is only a little hotter than punch II or III or other 5% 2 million spray. Of course it could all just be a numbers game

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  • N. A. Corbier
    Senior Member

  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Streetwise? Read the tail end of the OC thread that Mall Director created. That stuff can be used on drum and disc brakes, because it IS brake cleaner.

    BTW, the can of 16,000,000 SHU Vexor in front of my monitor is the "hottest OC on the face of the earth," except its C and not OC.

    Leave a comment:

  • Chucky
    Senior Member

  • Chucky
    replied
    At 17% and two million S.H.U., our Street Wise pepper spray is the hottest, most powerful in the world!

    The potency of this spray enables it to bring down even the most aggressive assailants. All of our pepper sprays are two million S.H.U., which is the highest available.

    Pepper spray enables you to defend yourself while keeping a safe distance from an attacker. A one second burst to the face will cause temporary blindness, choking, coughing, and nausea-bringing the attacker to his knees. The active ingredient in our spray is Oleoresin Capsicum (O.C.), commonly referred to as red pepper. When considering which pepper spray is most effective, one must consider the percentage of pepper being used and the heat rating of that pepper (measured in Scoville Heat Units or S.H.U.).

    This model contains two full ounces but is small enough to be concealed in the palm of your hand or to slip inside your pocket. It can also be carried in a holster (purchased separately).
    The container has made in USA on it.

    On the container it also says use only on drum brakes not disk. And do not use on Tacos. (Well maybe I made that part up

    Leave a comment:

  • Mall Director
    Member

  • Mall Director
    replied
    You know whats really scary????

    Alot of these no name brands are manufactored in China, Tiawan and Korea. You look further into what they use for solutions to break down the capsicumnoid, and its Acetone. Thats the same stuff I use to tear the paint off of my cars. It also leaves a "cold" sensation on your skin after it dries out.

    I really wouldnt want to get caught using that stuff, in court. They say that such a small amount is used in production, that the chances of permanant harm is minimal.. Why not go with the stuff that has "No chance"? LOL!

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  • N. A. Corbier
    Senior Member

  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Chucky
    I also use 17% no name OC 2.5 oz Here is what worries me most about the OC. Have you ever watched a cat stalking pray? All is still except the end of his tail. Well I must be part cat cause when I watching someone of interest I tend to fidget with the groves on the back of my Glock.

    Well my brain seems to have switched gears to the OC and I found that I had flipped the spray button off lock and was fidgeting with the button. Not much scares me but that little container set off in a busy room scares the crap out of me.
    17%? Does it happen to work really effectively? A lot of the no-name stuff uses brake cleaner (basically) as carrier. You could probably save some money and just spray brake cleaner in their eyes. Seriously.

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  • Chucky
    Senior Member

  • Chucky
    replied
    I also use 17% no name OC 2.5 oz Here is what worries me most about the OC. Have you ever watched a cat stalking pray? All is still except the end of his tail. Well I must be part cat cause when I watching someone of interest I tend to fidget with the groves on the back of my Glock.

    Well my brain seems to have switched gears to the OC and I found that I had flipped the spray button off lock and was fidgeting with the button. Not much scares me but that little container set off in a busy room scares the crap out of me.

    Leave a comment:


  • ocp
    replied
    Cool thanks for the info.

    Leave a comment:

  • EMTGuard
    Senior Member

  • EMTGuard
    replied
    Originally posted by CorpSec
    Freeze+P for me. The stuff just kills me. It is what the local cops carry and they all seem to like it.
    Ditto. I carry the stuff all the time. We used at the prison and I know it works.

    Leave a comment:


  • bigdog
    replied
    Regarding the comment on 5.3 million SHUs being hotter than most sprays. There is a big misconception that if there is High SHu numbers on the bottle it must be super hot.True those numbers seem important but the information below comes stright from Zarc the makers of capstun regarding SHUs.

    SHU Scoville Heat Units
    Laboratory Testing for Heat of Capsicum Peppers
    A misconception exists that the heat of a pepper spray is best demonstrated through Scoville Heat Units (SHU). SHU testing is none other than "tongue" tasting of the OC by a panel of 5 individuals. SHU therefore depends on the subjective taste experience of the panel. The SHU test is not accurate since it depends on the individual taste sensitivity which changes from person to person and does not measure the actual chemical percentage within the product. SHU test is an appropriate test for the food spice community, however it cannot serve as the standard for OC weaponry, where an officer depends on the OC's consistent and reliable performance.Therefore, to scientifically measure the amount of Capsaicin within OC sprays, High Pressure Liquid Chromatography (HPLC)* is used to obtain exact and accurate machine data. HPLC provides an acceptable international guideline for testing the Capsaicin amount by the scientific community.

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  • ocp
    replied
    Thanks for the info on the O.C. reviews. This is one of those topics that I think is important do to the fact that I would be using O.C. before I would use anything else depending on the incident. Have used FOX spray for about 5 years now after I observed a deputy spray the hell out of a combative drunk, and the spray made the guy puke and scream for about 25 Min. I was told because FOX has 5.3 Million SHU's that the stuff was hotter then most brands out there.

    Now I would love to try some of Defensive Tech spray, but I can't find the stuff here in Columbus. might have to order it.

    Leave a comment:

  • CorpSec
    Senior Member

  • CorpSec
    replied
    Freeze+P for me. The stuff just kills me. It is what the local cops carry and they all seem to like it.

    Leave a comment:

  • Mr. Security
    Senior Member

  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by Mall Director
    Theres another thread that I and many others have dedicated to torchering ourselves when it comes to OC..

    O.C. Review

    Click this, and read away! I didnt spen dmy time making my people misreable for nothing!
    Mall Director IS the best consultant on this topic. No need to reinvent the wheel here. BTW, any kind works on me. Just pull it out and I surrender.

    Leave a comment:

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