Rendering First Aid & C.P.R.

[Marchetti, David, M]

Hello Fellow Officers:

Connecticut has mandated training in order to get the Security Officer license, our policy is " No Touch " policy.

( a ) We do not carry nor are we equipped with any equipment except a personal first aid kit.

( b ) Not insured for providing medical treatment to others our liability policy covers false arrest, use of force, gross negligence.

( c ) Instructors are telling trainees that they are covered under the statutory good Samaritan Law, when in fact we are not the only legal thing on our side is common law rulings.

( d ) If I train and equip my employees and tell them they must provide First Aid & C.P.C. am I or my company liable if they get infected?, A.I.D.S., Hepatitis C, and other communicable diseases, What if one of my Officers infect someone else with a disease, am I liable?.

We are more in line with P.D. services, you need medical attention dial 911, get a paramedic or E.M.T., that's not what we are here for. I got into this with a Trooper in the DPS who got pissed when he asked if we would render him medical assistance and I said no. I even told him our policy was in line with another local P.D. that does not want it's police officers providing medical services.

More less then well thought out legislation by state law makers in Connecticut. What's your actual policies?

[Rooney]

Here in Arizona, the good sameritan law would cover you. As for the liability for communicable disease, that is a fine line. Under the good samaritan law you are covered. But, if an employee is on duty while performing the CPR and gets AIDS he may be able to sue the guard company for damages unless it is stated in the SOP's and signed by the guard that the company is not liable for circumstances that arise while on duty that are not part of the "normal procedure". So, if a guard does CPR that person is acting as a good samaritan and not acting under the companies procedures. We told our guards that if the situation arises the best thing to do is call paramedics. If it is not feasible for the EMT's to arive in time. The guard, under their own discretion, may initiate first aid and would not be acting as an employee while doing such. I know it sounds like we're hanging them out on a limb but for the security of the company AND the guard, it has to be done.

[HotelSecurity]

There is a Canadian Criminal Code article that makes it an offense if you have been trained to provide aid, a person needs that aid, if you refuse to provide it.

[Mr. Security]

Policy or no policy, I'm not going to stand by and let someone die after I call 911. If no one else is better qualified or willing to render help, then I will do the best I can if the victim agrees to accept treatment. Now if the individual is a victim because of gross recklessness or a criminal act, then all bets are off.

[N. A. Corbier]

In Wisconsin, anyone who provides professional rescuer services has to be licensed by the State Board of EMS as a Rescue Squad. Doesn't mean that an individual guard cannot perform CPR or first aid, but if they're paid to do it as part of their job duties, they become a professional rescuer and need a WI First Responder certificate.

In Florida, you can make a personal decision as a citizen to render aid, but will probably get yelled at and/or fired for it unless the company authorizes it. Florida has no such "professional rescuer" law, except that those using AEDs must be trained in their use prior to use.

What I don't get is Marchetti should know the answers to his oft posted "questions" regarding the liability of providing professional first-aid services. Yes, you're liable. You made it part of their job duties. You should already be giving OSHA Hazard Communication (Bloodborne Pathogens) if the guards are routinely going to come into contact with bloodborne pathogens, and provide personal protective equipment against BBP if they have an occupational exposure risk, at company expense.

Just like if you have guards working in an area with high levels of traffic, you have to provide PPE against being hit, you have to provide PPE for any occupational exposure vector.

OSHA has many, many, many pamphlets and information documents about PPE, the duty of the employer, the duty of the employee, and HAZCOM.

[T202]

We just got AEDs and everyone received First Aid and CPR training. Company policy is that we go on all on property medicals. Good Samaritan law should cover for anything short of gross negligence. If you use the proper protective equipment odds of contracting a contagious disease are pretty slim.

[Chucky]

Policy or no policy, I'm not going to stand by and let someone die after I call 911. If no one else is better qualified or willing to render help, then I will do the best I can if the victim agrees to accept treatment. Now if the individual is a victim because of gross recklessness or a criminal act, then all bets are off.

I fully agree. I also would not let someone die if I could in any way prevent it. In other words why are you in this bussiness if not to put your ass on the line for others once in a while. Going to court on earth for helping someone is a lot better than going the rest of your life knowing that you have no guts or glory.

[Echos13]

Though some of us still recall our first responder training for the old days we all are not trained or certified in first aid, advanced or 1stR at present. We call 911 and try to make the area safer for the person or persons. We had a traffic crash on property (off ramp enterance from interstate) about two weeks ago. Other than one other person I was the only CPO on scene for the moment. We are not allowed to touch anyone so all I could do is talk to the guy and wait till EMS arrived. An off duty EMT showd up and he took over which was fine with me. I did traffic control during the whole thing and that was about it while the Capt talked with the medical people. I think we need it but G4S/W will not pay for it nor do they want the liabaility ether way. If our client decides it then will have too I guess, but so far they don't show any indication of it. We have had heart attacks, slip and falls, fights, and one death so far from someone already on hospice who got ill and sat down and died in a few minutes. Most of us deal with high risks already in regards to viruses and baterial risks due to the high volume of cliental from around the world. I personally have got sick three times since starting there dispite precautions.

[N. A. Corbier]

Typical security company. Especially in Florida. Since you are only covered by the Good Samaritan act in Florida acting on your own, they still assume full liability, even though you are personally covered.

Its lose/lose for them, since there is no duty to render assistance nor report a crime in Florida for private citizens.

[HotelSecurity]

We are more in line with P.D. services, you need medical attention dial 911, get a paramedic or E.M.T., that's not what we are here for.

Again maybe it's because I'm in-house but my type of security is totally opposite of this. We are equally responsible for fire protection & first aid as well as the duties that are similar to law enforcement.

[OccamsRazor]

Contract states we all get the first aid/full spectrum CPR/AED training. As I understand the law here in WA, you're covered under Good Sam unless you exceed the scope of your training- so no emergency tracheotomies...

Anymore.

[CorpSec]

This is a tough one. I think Marchetti should consult an attorney since he would be taking on some liablility in my opinion.

In Minnesota, we have a solid good samaritan law. But, the issue tat comes into play for us is whether or not we fall under it or not. All of our staff are certified First Responders (40 hour course) and recertify every two years (16 hours).

We respond to a fair share of medicals and it is not optional. We respond to all medicals on the property irregardless of whether or not it is one of our employees or not.

The issue is that while most of the people we have talked to have said we are fully covered under the good samaritan law, not all are so sure. Since we do require officers to respond and they are on the clock and trained and certified through the state, we might be not be covered. It all depends on how you interpret the law.

[Eric]

Trained first aid/CPR/AED, usually first to respond. We have employees with the same training that carry a pager for call outs. Life safety is job one.

Ontario Canada put out a blood testing act last year that helps Police and other first responders, by speeding up the process & know sooner if some diseases were present and if concerned about the person helped.

http://ogov.newswire.ca/ontario/GPOE/2006/12/07/c5222.html?lmatch=&lang=_e.html

[T202]

We are more in line with P.D. services, you need medical attention dial 911, get a paramedic or E.M.T., that's not what we are here for. I got into this with a Trooper in the DPS who got pissed when he asked if we would render him medical assistance and I said no. I even told him our policy was in line with another local P.D. that does not want it's police officers providing medical services.

More less then well thought out legislation by state law makers in Connecticut. What's your actual policies?

I find it hard to believe that there are police departments with a “No touch” policy considering they have to have 50 hours of First Responder training to be certified.

[N. A. Corbier]

I've heard of police departments who have no first responder training. I don't believe its required in Florida. I know that when we did baseball games in South St. Petersburg, we were the medical response (and got chewed out for it), the state troopers assigned with the same mission refused to get involved when people started dropping like flies from heat stroke. We had to BLS two of them. Even worse:

The Sunstar (County Transport) ambulances could not legally assist us until the Fire Rescue/Ambulance arrived and "took over." I had a Sunstar Ambulance pull up while two of us were working CPR on a guy, and they had to call SPFD on the radio to ask if it was OK to start BLS on the guy. Fire was out of ambulances to send from the immediate area, so no SPFD unit could come to us (They were already working the other 6 people who dropped in 5 minutes.)