Rendering First Aid & C.P.R.

[ValleyOne]

Out here (statewide) dispatch is trained to give medical instructions over the phone, so if you have the means they can walk you through it till EMS arrives to take over. Well the means can only do so much, if your not willing or able to safely provide the care directed (ie no mask for CPR) that is...

[exguard]

Just like EMTGuard I'm in a unique situation when it comes to Medical Emergencies. Our unit provides Emerency Medical Care and responds directly to the scene if the patient isn't able to get to the medical unit.

We must have a minimum of one EMT and One Firefighter on duty as well as two Plant Protection Patrol Officers {who quite a few of are EMTs as well.} - The Security Supervisor on duty must also be an EMT.

Our main job is Security but when an emergency is dispatched on the refinery {We use Pager Tones over the radios} everything stops and the emergency is handled - Security escorts, office work, vehicle stops / screenings, radar, it all stops until the emergency is cleared.

Common sense tells one to act especially if CPR or major First-Aid is required - I say handle the emergency, and deal with the consequences later

[N. A. Corbier]

Dual taser hits are part of the curriculum for Taser training.

In every instance someone has died after being hit with a taser, they experienced something the medical community is calling "excited delirium." Before the taser M18 came out (remember, Tasers have been around since the 1970s) "ED" kills were attributed to pepper spray and positional asphyxia.

The truth is, we don't know what causes excited delirium. We only know that people start acting crazy, stripping off their clothes, becoming delusional, and violent.

Excited Delirium has been attributed to stimulants in the system (coke, crack, PCP, meth, etc), medical conditions (high fever, insulin shock, etc), and unknown causes.

Never reason with a man who is standing there naked or next to naked in the street and complains of being "hot" in 90 degree weather. His fever is making him feel hot, he is delusional, and he will hurt you if he senses you are a threat. And in his world, being another human being could be a threat.

Extremely high fever makes people delusional. Those of you who are EMT/Ps have probably been on calls where the pt suddenly went wackjob and attacked someone (maybe trying to jump out of the box) and lo and behold... The guy's hotter than hell.

[ctbgpo]

Dave,

JMHO and I preface this with I AM NOT A DOCTOR OR ELECTRICIAN!!! Anything is fesable (sp) but the energy from a taser is measured in volts (50,000) the energy measurment for cardiac defibrillation is measured in Joules ie 3 stacked shocks from an aed (set per medical control) is 200 j, 300 j, 360 j. Now in Ct we no longer stack the shocks (rumor from Paramedic wife) not really sure what we do cpr card runs out next year. Therefore the amount of NaCl (sodium Chloride) in your body is a negligible variant as a taser does not put out enough electricity to cardiovert someone's heart in to a ventricular fibulation like an aed or external defibrilator would.. I do know second hand, but from an excellent source, my wife was on scene one night and a drunk took a swing at her. The two Waterbury Police Officers both armed with tasers hit the fine upstanding citizen with the prongs (1 upper right torso, the other lower left hip/leg) and dropped him like a bad habit. Two cops owed beers. They did not zap each other, apparently the taser have some kind of governor/transfer dissipator ??? that prevents them from delivering the shock from one taser to another. I found that very interesting, and apologize for the discombobulated rant. I hope I answered your question and please feel free to ask me for my opinion, I hope someone can benefit from it.

[Marchetti, David, M]

Ct. has NO duty to act laws. I am an EMT in Connecticut and have been told, in every recert (for the last 11 years) that there is no duty to act.

CTBGPO: here is one for you since you have some training in medical stuff i.e. from another board about use of tasors - do you agree?.

We had a guy here that died after being tasored, the M.E. found nothing as the cause his heart just stopped afterwards. Some people may be more sensitive to electrical jolts, salt i.e. sodium is a conductor of electricity when mixed with other properties. We are all familiar with sodium chloride or common salt. Sodium chloride is formed by the combination of sodium and chlorine. Because of their chemistry, sodium tends to lose an electron when it reacts and chlorine tends to gain an electron and so when these two combine to form sodium chloride, one electron is "transferred" from a sodium atom to a chlorine atom. So we have sodium ions which are positively charged and chloride ions which are negatively charged. Since opposites attract (an electrostatic attraction) the ions attract one another and where we have enough of these we get the solid we all know. In this solid the attraction between the sodium ions and the chloride ions is strong and it is difficult to separate them. Sodium chloride is an ionic compound, that is the components are present as ions. If we try to pass an electric current through sodium chloride we find that there is considerable resistance to the flow - salt doesn’t conduct. But what happens if we throw some salt into water ? The solid dissolves, and the ions separate. What we get is a solution which contains sodium cations (positive ions) and chloride anions (negative ions). In this case these ions can move fairly freely and the solution can conduct. We get a similar result if we melt sodium chloride, molten salt also conducts.

Is it posable or feasible that someone with a high level of sodium in their body does not get the resistance level of a normal person, but in actuality gets a higher level of shock due to excess sodium, a shock per say to the heart which causes defibrillation and possibly death?. Chemistry dictates yes maybe. Well worth a medical study thus maybe explaining why some have died after being subject to a tasor charge.

[Marchetti, David, M]

Ct. has NO duty to act laws. I am an EMT in Connecticut and have been told, in every recert (for the last 11 years) that there is no duty to act.

100% correct here ctbgpo no duty to act so we are not bound to provide medical services :O) i.e. also why the local police department has a no touch policy no duty to act, my perspective is in medical emergencies let the EMT's or Paramedics handle it, I know when I am out of my realm of professional expertise. Tips his hat to you out of respect as a life saver. As a Security Officer we in Connecticut are not here to even attempt to take on the vital role of EMT's or Paramedics also why EMT's and Paramedics don't attempt to play the E.R. Doctors role.

Every man has his limitations, and a smart man knows his - Clint Eastwood.

[ctbgpo]

Ct. has NO duty to act laws. I am an EMT in Connecticut and have been told, in every recert (for the last 11 years) that there is no duty to act.

[Marchetti, David, M]

[QUOTE=ACP01]In most cases if you are a professional responder (this includes volunteer orginazations) you are not covered by the Good Samatiran Laws but under Standard of Care and Must Act doctrines.[QUOTE]

What are Connecticut's standard care and must act doctrines?, please provide a link if you can. In Connecticut as based on my previous post professional responders ARE covered by the states Good Samaritan Act i.e. why it cites various professional professions in it, as that is what affords them immunity from liability. Laws vary from state to state as you are aware.

[ACP01]

In most cases if you are a professional responder (this includes volunteer orginazations) you are not covered by the Good Samatiran Laws but under Standard of Care and Must Act doctrines.

If your security officers are trained at any recongnised level they would be required to act in a medical situation unless their taking medical action interfers with a higher duty. Example...a bystander is having chest pains but the SO is involved in breaking up a fight, robbery, etc then the the SO must deal with the security issue.

[Marchetti, David, M]

LOL Man! Good One...
It's a lot easier when you narrow it down to insanity. Then there's always the chance we can take our meds and come to our senses!

Puts down his double dose of prozack, watch it buddy having a sense of humor here can get you chastised, trust me I have seen the pods in the back rooms, they'r hereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

No serious I am not an E.M.T. or a Paramedic, I have no interest or desire to act in a medical capacity on the job, if I did I would be an E.M.T. or Paramedic. Back in 1985 when I started in security it was actually rare you would find someone with advanced medical training at least in this area. We were not brought up with the observe and report mentality either. The owner was an ex-police officer and was his second in command, you saw some former state troopers in the field as security directors. We were trained right up front you see a crime committed on a clients property you act to stop it and arrest the suspect. I recall the first time I had to use force on duty I was just 18 years old and I got into it with a cleaning guy bugging his former wife also a cleaner. I grabbed this kid by the rear of his belt and sent him out a doorway on his tip toes. The company down played the use of physical force in general I figured I would get fired. The fellow in charge of client security was a former p.o. and a good guy, he laughed and just had one question. He wanted to know how far I sent the guy flying out the door - laughing. I have never been here for medical emergencies and never will be. To me this medical stuff is a new trend in the industry, you need a rent a cop on your property to enforce company rules or state laws, call me, if you need a sting operation set up to nail someone stealing, call me, you need a bar fight cleared out before someone gets injured, by all means call me, you need medical help dial 911 :O)

[globalinstincts]

My question is, if one is so worried about the risk of becoming a statistic, why be in such a dangerous industry with so many risks of becoming a statistic?

Love of da job?, insanity?, good pay?, great work hours?, nawww must be insanity or something else laughing.

LOL Man! Good One...
It's a lot easier when you narrow it down to insanity. Then there's always the chance we can take our meds and come to our senses!

[EMTGuard]

As an EMT/Security Officer I have a unique take on this.
Our policy is that the contract calls for the Security Company to provide at least one Security Officer who is a Nationaly Registered Emergency Medical Technician - Basic per shift. That EMT will respond to all medical emergencies on the premises as well as provide specific nonemergency duties such as issue of safety equiptment (steel toe boots, safety glasses) and conducting drug screens (pee tests) through the on site medical clinic as required by the client. EMTs will also transport noncritical (BLS) patients to the local hospital or physicans clinic as directed. The EMTs, employed by the contract security company, perform their medical duties under the medical license and control of the client facility medical director. EMTs are provided BLS medical equiptment by the client as well as a vehicle to respond to emergencies. Our post orders clearly state that medical emergencies take priority over any security duties and EMTs will respond immediatly to any calls. Should the on duty EMT determine that a patient requires ALS/Paramedic level care or transport the Security Officer on duty shall dial 911 and request a ambulance from the local private ambulance service. Anytime any employee is transportted by the EMT or by ambulance the EMT shall notify the facility Safety and Human Resources Director as soon as possible to advise him of the nature of the emergency. (I usually make the call while enroute to the ER.)
So my job requires me to respond and treat patients at the facility where I'm posted I'm considered a professional rescuer and not a good samaritan. Everyone has a different situation. That's just mine.

[Marchetti, David, M]

My question is, if one is so worried about the risk of becoming a statistic, why be in such a dangerous industry with so many risks of becoming a statistic?

Love of da job?, insanity?, good pay?, great work hours?, nawww must be insanity or something else laughing.

[Arff312]

Global they settled his claim after several years, he walked away with his medical paid and $7,000.00 to this day he still has to use a cane or walker, handicapped parking places, and forget walking any great distances. This is a fellow who at 80 went to the gym 3 times a week, lifted weights, and was still dating laughing. He was very active as he became older then the accident happened now he's home bound pretty much. The security company bailed so fast on him it was not even funny. Don't get hurt on the job as no one has your back if you get hurt or worse.

John Adamo - Shot to death
Sandra Albiana - Killed in the line of duty
Pedro Alcone - Killed while fighting a fire
Lloyd Allen - Shot to death
Ken Anderson - Shot to death
Elroy Arokium - Shot to death
Joe Augustin - Shot to death
Troy Aytch - Shot to death
Ken Baily - Shot to death
Yonel Bathelemy - Shot to death
Charled Bennett - Shot to death
George Bernarino - Shot to death
Frank Benson - Died while helping police hit by vehicle
Patrick Bettan - Killed by employer during riot
Phillip Billings - off duty deputy/ security officer - Shot to death
Gregory Brown - Shot to death

I can give you a list as long as your arm, all security officers, all killed in the line of duty. One guys family could not even bury the fellow as they did not have money for a coffin - They assisted people in need too. Simply put I am not medically trained or equipped I'm not getting involved that's our policy, i.e. do you let a policeman run into a burning building, no he's not equipped or trained to enter a fire scene -i.e. 911 ring a bell they paid the price for being heros and NOT listening to their commanding officers who told them to pull out, they are dead. A supervisor of mine said it best to us,

Their is no such thing as a good dead hero, dead is dead, and you only add to the numerical statistics of the body count. A real hero saves a life and not looses his own in the process.

The issue of what happened on 9/11 is not what this post is about. But the people that lost their lives on 9/11 did so facing somehting that had never been planned for or expected. My dad was their and knows many people who were injured and killed their. So since you obviously werent their ( instead at home worring about ur dont act policy) dont make comments such as that. You go back to being the warm body that your obviously so good at. I cant see why you would not offer assistance to people. You abid by your dont act policy . I am glad my supervisor has told me do what needs to be done to keep our area clean. I am a certified EMT and Firefighter and work as such full tome. If i ever came to a scene where a security guard or officer did not assist a patient when it would have helped there would be lots to answer. Espically if you are trained to do so. I would have your guard card in an instance for failure to act. If you are worried about getting hurt, injuried or sick then you need to go into another field. If you want to help people stay in this field, equipyour self and officers and do some good. Maybe its time you built your house out of stone instead of straw.

[globalinstincts]

Global they settled his claim after several years, he walked away with his medical paid and $7,000.00 to this day he still has to use a cane or walker, handicapped parking places, and forget walking any great distances. This is a fellow who at 80 went to the gym 3 times a week, lifted weights, and was still dating laughing. He was very active as he became older then the accident happened now he's home bound pretty much. The security company bailed so fast on him it was not even funny. Don't get hurt on the job as no one has your back if you get hurt or worse.

John Adamo - Shot to death
Sandra Albiana - Killed in the line of duty
Pedro Alcone - Killed while fighting a fire
Lloyd Allen - Shot to death
Ken Anderson - Shot to death
Elroy Arokium - Shot to death
Joe Augustin - Shot to death
Troy Aytch - Shot to death
Ken Baily - Shot to death
Yonel Bathelemy - Shot to death
Charled Bennett - Shot to death
George Bernarino - Shot to death
Frank Benson - Died while helping police hit by vehicle
Patrick Bettan - Killed by employer during riot
Phillip Billings - off duty deputy/ security officer - Shot to death
Gregory Brown - Shot to death

I can give you a list as long as your arm, all security officers, all killed in the line of duty. One guys family could not even bury the fellow as they did not have money for a coffin - They assisted people in need too. Simply put I am not medically trained or equipped I'm not getting involved that's our policy, i.e. do you let a policeman run into a burning building, no he's not equipped or trained to enter a fire scene -i.e. 911 ring a bell they paid the price for being heros and NOT listening to their commanding officers who told them to pull out, they are dead. A supervisor of mine said it best to us,

Their is no such thing as a good dead hero, dead is dead, and you only add to the numerical statistics of the body count. A real hero saves a life and not looses his own in the process.

The number of Security killed in the line of duty is high. But my guesstimate would be that most are killed by attackers (as the stats in your post suggest) and the amount that die from injuries/infections contracted from administering first aid are probably very few in comparison.

My question is, if one is so worried about the risk of becoming a statistic, why be in such a dangerous industry with so many risks of becoming a statistic?

For me personally, I know what the risks are involved with my job, and I approach them all very seriously.
If I want to administer first aid correctly and safely, I attend a Red Cross course. If I want to become more proficient with my baton, I take martial arts training specializing in Tonfa techniques. Firearm Training, People Skills, Even WMD...
This training will allow me to approach all potential duties in a confident and legally informed manner.
But we are in agreement, if your not trained to do something, you probably should leave it to someone who is...

As for 9/11 "ringing a bell", I was not at the T.T.'s , so I won't second guess what was told to the Heros (yes, they are dead heros) who risked their own lives to save others (which they did), or to the relevant training that they might have received.
I just salute them for their bravery.