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  • #16
    Originally posted by CorpSec
    This is a tough one. I think Marchetti should consult an attorney since he would be taking on some liablility in my opinion.
    In his best Italian accent - That's a why we have the policy we do, and believe me I have attorneys lol - everyone is sue happy today.....

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by T202
      I find it hard to believe that there are police departments with a “No touch” policy considering they have to have 50 hours of First Responder training to be certified.
      Believe it i.e. the town said they have the policy as they don't want the liability issues.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by CorpSec
        The issue is that while most of the people we have talked to have said we are fully covered under the good samaritan law, not all are so sure. Since we do require officers to respond and they are on the clock and trained and certified through the state, we might be not be covered. It all depends on how you interpret the law.
        Same here CorpSec they tell everyone they are covered by the statute, but they are not Police Officers are, Firemen, Paramedics, Nurses, Doctors, Parole Officers, even Teachers ( they have an option not to assist ) but Security Officers or General Public are not included, so your only left with common law protections.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
          I've heard of police departments who have no first responder training. I don't believe its required in Florida. I know that when we did baseball games in South St. Petersburg, we were the medical response (and got chewed out for it), the state troopers assigned with the same mission refused to get involved when people started dropping like flies from heat stroke. We had to BLS two of them. Even worse:

          The Sunstar (County Transport) ambulances could not legally assist us until the Fire Rescue/Ambulance arrived and "took over." I had a Sunstar Ambulance pull up while two of us were working CPR on a guy, and they had to call SPFD on the radio to ask if it was OK to start BLS on the guy. Fire was out of ambulances to send from the immediate area, so no SPFD unit could come to us (They were already working the other 6 people who dropped in 5 minutes.)
          I believe they do now since FDLE revamped the program. Not 100% on that. I know it is part of the Firefighter 1 program, where it used to not be a requirement.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Marchetti, David, M
            Same here CorpSec they tell everyone they are covered by the statute, but they are not Police Officers are, Firemen, Paramedics, Nurses, Doctors, Parole Officers, even Teachers ( they have an option not to assist ) but Security Officers or General Public are not included, so your only left with common law protections.
            What are you referring to? Do you know what Good Samaritan acts are? The people you stated are Professional Rescuers, not Good Samaritans. Good Samaritans are people who are not professional rescuers who make a personal decision to save a life or administer first aid.

            Firefighters and Paramedics are the definition of Professional Rescuer as they're part of the EMS system.

            Again, basis of law, please?
            Some Kind of Commando Leader

            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

            Comment


            • #21
              While I understand this post is questioning the liability of these acts... I can't help to point out:

              The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) says no scientific evidence shows that Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS) is transmitted by saliva. The American Heart Association doesn't know of a single case of a rescuer getting AIDS from contact with a manikin used in CPR training, or from giving CPR to a cardiac arrest victim.

              Here is a Red Cross PDF on facts about first aid and HIV/AIDS, including safe methods for offering first aid and CPR.

              www.ifrc.org/docs/pubs/health/guidelinesE.pdf

              Comment


              • #22
                If your state actually has a good Samaritan law I suggest you read it folks as it will have limitations as to who it covers and what it covers under the letter of the law. Ours applies to Police Officers, Firemen, Doctors, Nurses, Probation Officers, and other public safety personal. Police Officers, Firemen, etc., are not automatically given immunity from civil liability unless the state laws provide for it, in this case this act is what gives them immunity. The general public and Security Officers are not covered under Connecticut statutory laws i.e. no exemption for liability exists under statutory laws. The only legal protections you have is Common Law Rulings i.e. Judge Made Case Law, which is not statutory law. If your providing First Aid & C.P.R. better read your state statutes public act and or statutory laws, and review common law rulings before you touch anyone.

                Connecticuts application: Under CGS § 52-557b(b), the following persons who render emergency first aid are also not liable for ordinary negligence if they have completed a course in first aid offered by the American Red Cross, the American Heart Association, the National Ski Patrol, the Department of Health and Addiction Services, or any director of health as certified by the agency or director of health offering the course:

                1. paid or volunteer firefighters or police officers;

                2. teachers or other school personnel on school grounds, in a school building, or at a school function;

                3. members of a ski patrol;

                4. lifeguards;

                5. conservation officers;

                6. patrol officers or special police officers of the Department of Environmental Protection; and

                7. emergency medical service personnel.


                This law also exempts firefighters, police officers, or emergency medical service personnel who forcibly enter the residence of any person to render emergency first aid from liability for damages to property.

                Under CGS § 52-557b(c), a railroad company employee who has completed a first aid course offered by the American Red Cross, who is trained in CPR in accordance with American Red Cross standards and who renders emergency first aid or CPR to a person in need of it, is not liable for ordinary negligence. Under CGS § 52-557b(d), a railroad company that provides emergency medical training or equipment to any employee granted immunity under CGS § 52-557b(c), is not liable for civil damages for any injury sustained resulting from the company's act or omission in providing the training or equipment or which results from the employee rendering first aid or CPR, which constitutes ordinary negligence.

                A teacher or other school personnel, on school grounds or in the school building or at a school function, who has completed a first aid course offered by specified organizations and a course given by the school medical adviser is not liable to the assisted person for civil damages for any resulting injuries for ordinary negligence. This immunity also applies to a licensed physician who administers medication by injection.

                Ordinary negligence is the failure to exercise such care as the great mass of mankind ordinarily exercises under the same or similar circumstances (Clemens v. State, 176 Wis. 289; 57 Am. Jur. 2d Negligence, § 98). Negligence is doing something that a prudent and reasonable person would not do, or not doing something that a reasonable person would do under the same circumstances. The standard is an objective one.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by globalinstincts
                  While I understand this post is questioning the liability of these acts... I can't help to point out:

                  The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) says no scientific evidence shows that Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS) is transmitted by saliva. The American Heart Association doesn't know of a single case of a rescuer getting AIDS from contact with a manikin used in CPR training, or from giving CPR to a cardiac arrest victim.

                  Here is a Red Cross PDF on facts about first aid and HIV/AIDS, including safe methods for offering first aid and CPR.

                  www.ifrc.org/docs/pubs/health/guidelinesE.pdf
                  And I know an Ambulance Tech that got infected by someone with Hepatitis C ( guy never even knew it ) who's liver is now failing and his company has pretty much abandoned him, he's now suing for medical costs and such, just a matter of time before he dies poor guy. We don't have to worry as we will not even enter a situation where exposure is a risk. Ask your self this smart intelligent people, if you did become infected with something nasty like aids, would your company cover your backside?. My own father in law worked for Securitas for a while and got hurt on the job requiring 3 operations on his back, the moment they sensed it was going to cost them money they bailed on him - typical of most security companys. He's left a cripple and unemployed now for a line of duty injury. A prudent man thinks before he acts.....

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Marchetti, David, M
                    If your state actually has a good Samaritan law I suggest you read it folks as it will have limitations as to who it covers and what it covers under the letter of the law. Ours applies to Police Officers, Firemen, Doctors, Nurses, Probation Officers, and other public safety personal. Police Officers, Firemen, etc., are not automatically given immunity from civil liability unless the state laws provide for it, in this case this act is what gives them immunity. The general public and Security Officers are not covered under Connecticut statutory laws i.e. no exemption for liability exists under statutory laws. The only legal protections you have is Common Law Rulings i.e. Judge Made Case Law, which is not statutory law. If your providing First Aid & C.P.R. better read your state statutes public act and or statutory laws, and review common law rulings before you touch anyone.

                    Connecticuts application: Under CGS § 52-557b(b), the following persons who render emergency first aid are also not liable for ordinary negligence if they have completed a course in first aid offered by the American Red Cross, the American Heart Association, the National Ski Patrol, the Department of Health and Addiction Services, or any director of health as certified by the agency or director of health offering the course:

                    1. paid or volunteer firefighters or police officers;

                    2. teachers or other school personnel on school grounds, in a school building, or at a school function;

                    3. members of a ski patrol;

                    4. lifeguards;

                    5. conservation officers;

                    6. patrol officers or special police officers of the Department of Environmental Protection; and

                    7. emergency medical service personnel.


                    This law also exempts firefighters, police officers, or emergency medical service personnel who forcibly enter the residence of any person to render emergency first aid from liability for damages to property.

                    Under CGS § 52-557b(c), a railroad company employee who has completed a first aid course offered by the American Red Cross, who is trained in CPR in accordance with American Red Cross standards and who renders emergency first aid or CPR to a person in need of it, is not liable for ordinary negligence. Under CGS § 52-557b(d), a railroad company that provides emergency medical training or equipment to any employee granted immunity under CGS § 52-557b(c), is not liable for civil damages for any injury sustained resulting from the company's act or omission in providing the training or equipment or which results from the employee rendering first aid or CPR, which constitutes ordinary negligence.

                    A teacher or other school personnel, on school grounds or in the school building or at a school function, who has completed a first aid course offered by specified organizations and a course given by the school medical adviser is not liable to the assisted person for civil damages for any resulting injuries for ordinary negligence. This immunity also applies to a licensed physician who administers medication by injection.

                    Ordinary negligence is the failure to exercise such care as the great mass of mankind ordinarily exercises under the same or similar circumstances (Clemens v. State, 176 Wis. 289; 57 Am. Jur. 2d Negligence, § 98). Negligence is doing something that a prudent and reasonable person would not do, or not doing something that a reasonable person would do under the same circumstances. The standard is an objective one.
                    That is the complete opposite of a Good Samaritan law. That is "enhanced immunity from civil liablity for professional or occupational rescuers."

                    Now, does CT have a Good Samaritan law?
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Marchetti, David, M
                      And I know an Ambulance Tech that got infected by someone with Hepatitis C ( guy never even knew it ) who's liver is now failing and his company has pretty much abandoned him, he's now suing for medical costs and such, just a matter of time before he dies poor guy. We don't have to worry as we will not even enter a situation where exposure is a risk. Ask your self this smart intelligent people, if you did become infected with something nasty like aids, would your company cover your backside?. My own father in law worked for Securitas for a while and got hurt on the job requiring 3 operations on his back, the moment they sensed it was going to cost them money they bailed on him - typical of most security companys. He's left a cripple and unemployed now for a line of duty injury. A prudent man thinks before he acts.....
                      That is a bummer!
                      Anybody who has worked for a large corporation (inside or outside the Security industry) knows the level at which they will dispose of a "little guy".
                      And... Unfortunately, Workmen's Comp keeps a lot of folks from getting the compensation they deserve when injured on the job.

                      So I whole heartily agree, "A prudent man thinks before he acts". But in my opinion the thinking should consist of "HOW can I assist this person in need, without injuring or infecting myself".
                      And should not be, "SHOULD I assist this person in need because there is a risk involved with doing so".

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by globalinstincts
                        That is a bummer!
                        Anybody who has worked for a large corporation (inside or outside the Security industry) knows the level at which they will dispose of a "little guy".
                        And... Unfortunately, Workmen's Comp keeps a lot of folks from getting the compensation they deserve when injured on the job.

                        So I whole heartily agree, "A prudent man thinks before he acts". But in my opinion the thinking should consist of "HOW can I assist this person in need, without injuring or infecting myself". And should not be, "SHOULD I assist this person in need because there is a risk involved with doing so".
                        Global they settled his claim after several years, he walked away with his medical paid and $7,000.00 to this day he still has to use a cane or walker, handicapped parking places, and forget walking any great distances. This is a fellow who at 80 went to the gym 3 times a week, lifted weights, and was still dating laughing. He was very active as he became older then the accident happened now he's home bound pretty much. The security company bailed so fast on him it was not even funny. Don't get hurt on the job as no one has your back if you get hurt or worse.

                        John Adamo - Shot to death
                        Sandra Albiana - Killed in the line of duty
                        Pedro Alcone - Killed while fighting a fire
                        Lloyd Allen - Shot to death
                        Ken Anderson - Shot to death
                        Elroy Arokium - Shot to death
                        Joe Augustin - Shot to death
                        Troy Aytch - Shot to death
                        Ken Baily - Shot to death
                        Yonel Bathelemy - Shot to death
                        Charled Bennett - Shot to death
                        George Bernarino - Shot to death
                        Frank Benson - Died while helping police hit by vehicle
                        Patrick Bettan - Killed by employer during riot
                        Phillip Billings - off duty deputy/ security officer - Shot to death
                        Gregory Brown - Shot to death

                        I can give you a list as long as your arm, all security officers, all killed in the line of duty. One guys family could not even bury the fellow as they did not have money for a coffin - They assisted people in need too. Simply put I am not medically trained or equipped I'm not getting involved that's our policy, i.e. do you let a policeman run into a burning building, no he's not equipped or trained to enter a fire scene -i.e. 911 ring a bell they paid the price for being heros and NOT listening to their commanding officers who told them to pull out, they are dead. A supervisor of mine said it best to us,

                        Their is no such thing as a good dead hero, dead is dead, and you only add to the numerical statistics of the body count. A real hero saves a life and not looses his own in the process.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          David & Nathan

                          Instead of making a blanket policy of NO assistance, why not handle it on a case-by-case basis? If you need control, then restrict it to supervisor discretion. Companies that make no-exception policies usually do not have confidence in their officers.

                          Nathan: To the best of my knowledge, CT has a Good Samaritan law. If possible, let the victim agree to aid and let him do it if possible. For example: A bleeding wound can be controlled with pressure points and by pressure applied with a clean cloth directly on the wound. Give the victim the clean cloth and instruct him how to do it. Have the victim lay down with the injured part elevated above the head to minimize shock. Cover the victim with a blanket and ask him to keep quiet. Reassure him that he's going to make it no matter what. (After all, you never know. Miracles happen)
                          Last edited by Mr. Security; 01-25-2007, 04:38 AM.
                          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Marchetti, David, M
                            Global they settled his claim after several years, he walked away with his medical paid and $7,000.00 to this day he still has to use a cane or walker, handicapped parking places, and forget walking any great distances. This is a fellow who at 80 went to the gym 3 times a week, lifted weights, and was still dating laughing. He was very active as he became older then the accident happened now he's home bound pretty much. The security company bailed so fast on him it was not even funny. Don't get hurt on the job as no one has your back if you get hurt or worse.

                            John Adamo - Shot to death
                            Sandra Albiana - Killed in the line of duty
                            Pedro Alcone - Killed while fighting a fire
                            Lloyd Allen - Shot to death
                            Ken Anderson - Shot to death
                            Elroy Arokium - Shot to death
                            Joe Augustin - Shot to death
                            Troy Aytch - Shot to death
                            Ken Baily - Shot to death
                            Yonel Bathelemy - Shot to death
                            Charled Bennett - Shot to death
                            George Bernarino - Shot to death
                            Frank Benson - Died while helping police hit by vehicle
                            Patrick Bettan - Killed by employer during riot
                            Phillip Billings - off duty deputy/ security officer - Shot to death
                            Gregory Brown - Shot to death

                            I can give you a list as long as your arm, all security officers, all killed in the line of duty. One guys family could not even bury the fellow as they did not have money for a coffin - They assisted people in need too. Simply put I am not medically trained or equipped I'm not getting involved that's our policy, i.e. do you let a policeman run into a burning building, no he's not equipped or trained to enter a fire scene -i.e. 911 ring a bell they paid the price for being heros and NOT listening to their commanding officers who told them to pull out, they are dead. A supervisor of mine said it best to us,

                            Their is no such thing as a good dead hero, dead is dead, and you only add to the numerical statistics of the body count. A real hero saves a life and not looses his own in the process.
                            The number of Security killed in the line of duty is high. But my guesstimate would be that most are killed by attackers (as the stats in your post suggest) and the amount that die from injuries/infections contracted from administering first aid are probably very few in comparison.

                            My question is, if one is so worried about the risk of becoming a statistic, why be in such a dangerous industry with so many risks of becoming a statistic?

                            For me personally, I know what the risks are involved with my job, and I approach them all very seriously.
                            If I want to administer first aid correctly and safely, I attend a Red Cross course. If I want to become more proficient with my baton, I take martial arts training specializing in Tonfa techniques. Firearm Training, People Skills, Even WMD...
                            This training will allow me to approach all potential duties in a confident and legally informed manner.
                            But we are in agreement, if your not trained to do something, you probably should leave it to someone who is...

                            As for 9/11 "ringing a bell", I was not at the T.T.'s , so I won't second guess what was told to the Heros (yes, they are dead heros) who risked their own lives to save others (which they did), or to the relevant training that they might have received.
                            I just salute them for their bravery.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Marchetti, David, M
                              Global they settled his claim after several years, he walked away with his medical paid and $7,000.00 to this day he still has to use a cane or walker, handicapped parking places, and forget walking any great distances. This is a fellow who at 80 went to the gym 3 times a week, lifted weights, and was still dating laughing. He was very active as he became older then the accident happened now he's home bound pretty much. The security company bailed so fast on him it was not even funny. Don't get hurt on the job as no one has your back if you get hurt or worse.

                              John Adamo - Shot to death
                              Sandra Albiana - Killed in the line of duty
                              Pedro Alcone - Killed while fighting a fire
                              Lloyd Allen - Shot to death
                              Ken Anderson - Shot to death
                              Elroy Arokium - Shot to death
                              Joe Augustin - Shot to death
                              Troy Aytch - Shot to death
                              Ken Baily - Shot to death
                              Yonel Bathelemy - Shot to death
                              Charled Bennett - Shot to death
                              George Bernarino - Shot to death
                              Frank Benson - Died while helping police hit by vehicle
                              Patrick Bettan - Killed by employer during riot
                              Phillip Billings - off duty deputy/ security officer - Shot to death
                              Gregory Brown - Shot to death

                              I can give you a list as long as your arm, all security officers, all killed in the line of duty. One guys family could not even bury the fellow as they did not have money for a coffin - They assisted people in need too. Simply put I am not medically trained or equipped I'm not getting involved that's our policy, i.e. do you let a policeman run into a burning building, no he's not equipped or trained to enter a fire scene -i.e. 911 ring a bell they paid the price for being heros and NOT listening to their commanding officers who told them to pull out, they are dead. A supervisor of mine said it best to us,

                              Their is no such thing as a good dead hero, dead is dead, and you only add to the numerical statistics of the body count. A real hero saves a life and not looses his own in the process.
                              The issue of what happened on 9/11 is not what this post is about. But the people that lost their lives on 9/11 did so facing somehting that had never been planned for or expected. My dad was their and knows many people who were injured and killed their. So since you obviously werent their ( instead at home worring about ur dont act policy) dont make comments such as that. You go back to being the warm body that your obviously so good at. I cant see why you would not offer assistance to people. You abid by your dont act policy . I am glad my supervisor has told me do what needs to be done to keep our area clean. I am a certified EMT and Firefighter and work as such full tome. If i ever came to a scene where a security guard or officer did not assist a patient when it would have helped there would be lots to answer. Espically if you are trained to do so. I would have your guard card in an instance for failure to act. If you are worried about getting hurt, injuried or sick then you need to go into another field. If you want to help people stay in this field, equipyour self and officers and do some good. Maybe its time you built your house out of stone instead of straw.
                              Robert
                              Here endith the lesson

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                My question is, if one is so worried about the risk of becoming a statistic, why be in such a dangerous industry with so many risks of becoming a statistic?

                                Love of da job?, insanity?, good pay?, great work hours?, nawww must be insanity or something else laughing.

                                Comment

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