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**Chucky** · 01-24-2007, 06:12 PM

Dave I'm glad that you added the links about the corrupt cops although I do have some issues with your distain for real cops. Have you ever rolled up on a family of 5 that went to fast around a corner and skidded through a guard rail Decapitating all 5?? (Phorzhiem Germany 1968)

How about a kid that was so afraid to go up the the front line that he sucked on the business end of an AR16 and leaned on the trigger? (4th ID Dong Ba Thien Nam 1967)

Being an MP in the 60s opened my eyes as to what a cop goes through on a daily basis and you maybe should do a ride along with your local PD. It may give you a greater acceptation of what they do.

I could go on but this kind of trip down memory lane makes me sick. I hope some day reality will kick in and you will see that being a cop on a domestic around the Holidays can really suck. I don't have the stats but the amount of cops that commit suicide in this country each year will make your campaign hat spin.

**Marchetti, David, M** · 01-28-2007, 03:08 PM

Chucky, My Grandfather was a highly respected police officer in a large Connecticut city, one of the first motorcycle cops, one of the first to ticket a judge, well known for his gruff voice and no nonsense approach to things, we are talking right after World War I here, when he died he was so respected it was front page news. He was described as a Cop's Cop, by the old timers, some of whom I have known growing up. My God Father was with the Norwalk or Bridgeport Connecticut Police Department for any years, it was not uncommon to come into my parents household and find a cop sitting at the kitchen table with a cup of coffee. In high school to earn extra credit I worked in a Police Department as an intern.

Over the years I have been good friends with some cops, have had breakfast with them, F.B.I. Agents, U.S. Marshals, Locals, and even a State Police Sergeant. I am not anti-police the problem here, is that some on these boards being Police Officers, or the subservient lackeys there too take great exception if you say anything against police, question the actions of some police officers, or do not agree that police officers are above everyone else. To a point they will try and ridicule you, attack you, rather then converse intelligently about the subject matter, I look at the source of where this comes from and just chalk it up to another idiot flapping his lips with an opinion, and dismiss it.

What I do not support or condone is the mentality of some of these individuals i.e. police can do no wrong, they are special and above the law, or they are the law, it's this egotistical authoritative psychological state of delusion that I cannot support. To quote one of the scholars in the room " If a Police Officer gives you an order you have to follow it ". No you don't it's called Free Will, when authority is misdirected, abused, or mistreated I think it's the duty of any American to expose it, challenge it, and if need be fight it by any means. I am happy some of these individuals were not the founding fathers of our nation, as they would have complied with the crowns orders from their perspectives of " Never question or challenge authority ". If you came off like that to me in real life I would stick my foot up your ***, Police Officer or not and you could count on some legal problems down the road, not everyone is a pacifist in our society. A lot of these police officers today do have some serious psychological issues as they have adopted demi-god mentalities, I have had police tell me " They are not required to do anything by law, the laws don't apply to us on the basis we are the police ", and then they wonder or are shocked when someone kills a police officer in an ambush, they wonder why they get sued so often, people don't cooporate with them, some advocate the killing of them, and other problems. From where I am sitting I can state that in my opinion it's their mentality and abuse, that causes a lot of their problems as a whole. More often then not we are the creators of our own worst enemies.

" I do have some issues with your distrain for real cops ", that my friend is only your perception on many occasions I have assisted Police Officers in the field. However if I see a Police Officer engage in any activity that is wrong, illegal, or ethically challenged, if need be I will confront them, report them to higher up's, and if need be make a criminal complaint against them, as no one is above the law badge or not. Police have failed to clean up their own industry and it's their problem, but they cannot expect the public or their counterpart to stand by and say nothing when they see something wrong. It is this same mentality with the mentality of being above the law and almost god like that creates and allows into existence corruption, abuse, and misconduct in almost ever police department from one degree to another, which is cop crime. My familiarity with law enforcement is actually extensive, I know where they roost, I know about the get out of trouble card, I know about the blue line on the bumper, and I know the unspoken policies and practices. Actually at one point I took the test 18th out of 200 and that's without studying ARCO. It seems to me that Police Departments in hiring have opted for the younger physical types who may be book smart but are people stupid " Dumb as a box of rocks " as one person put it, and they have put such a favoritism on the physical test score types that they have sacrificed honor and honesty with a lot of new police officers. I rather have a Police Officer that's over weight, maybe not book smart, for one that's People Smart and HONEST. And it seems the old timers 20+ or more just get more corrupt and misguided as they see themselves on the way out and they know it i.e. the increase of private policing services, a private company taking over an entire police department, community policing ( a new concept ) that is an old one getting back to the basics. In the mid 1800's organized policing was created in London and spread like wild fire across the globe, it was a social experiment and we have seen the results - failure. The DOJ has acknowledged if not for private security crime rates would sky rocket beyond control of societies means, courts would fail to function, prisons would be filled faster then they could be built. Talon in the room put it best " What a lot of Public Security Officers ( that’s Police Officers to the lay person) forget is that they owe their very existence to Private Security. Long before there was an LAPD or an NYPD or a Secret Service ( Security started them out and they still resent it ) or any of the Federal, State and local alphabet soup agencies there were Private Security. Private Armies, Bounty Hunters, Bodyguards, Rail Road Agents, take your pick...they all predate our system of Government Police that has only been around for less than 200 ( 177 ) years. So in all reality....who wants to be who? ".

Law Enforcement obviously resents in effect they are attempting to represent our profession which can be clearly traced back to 597 B.C., for the most part they do not know or even want to acknowledge that they are our baby brother ( police sites deleting any association with our professions ). It's the equivalency of you taking orders from say a much younger sibling, which I am sure you would not do. On the basis of resentment, dislike, false perceptions, and other problems it's clear they ( Police ) do not honestly wish to have a working relationship with our profession and industry, although they are dependent upon it. I have found the majority of security service providers have a mentality as " What is their problem we are all on the same side " mentality i.e. to protect people and property. Just that we do it differently through different means, Police are reactive in general i.e. who do you call after you have been mugged vs. Security's proactive prevention I'll stand here and watch and look mean so the mugger will leave before he mugs someone. Policing as a means of societal protection has failed, while private policing ( Security ) has grown nation wide to out number police 3 to 1, 4 to 1, that speaks volumes. Police see this, they know it, and they resent it, the same applies to their history or being a derivative from our profession. Security being in effect a true societal policing force ( using people from all sectors of society ) had a deluge of retiring police officers enter into our industry in the 1940's and 1950's wherein the Observe and Report mentality came into play and has remained in place for many. I believe it is and has been with clear intent out of loyalty, resentment, and other factors that the law enforcement influence in our industry has acted willfully to keep members of this profession under educated, poorly paid, and often times made to look bad by hiring undesirable's so that public perception is negative upon this industry, thus an attempt to influence society at large that we are incompetent to take over the role of law enforcement, which we created to begin with i.e. job security for law enforcement. But despite these efforts, our industry continues to grow and prosper, we are assuming more policing rolls which were traditionally ours to begin with, and long term it's just a matter of time before we retain our industries traditional role of being societies premiere public safety authority again, or law enforcement's capacity diminished long term as evident to becoming a responsive unit of government rather then being a proactive roll. This is my perspectives on our industires baby brother Law Enforcement, I hope this clearifies things for you on the subject.

As for what Police Officers have seen and deal with, it's honestly not much diffrent from what we deal with, only exception is perhaps homicides, and car accidents kinda sort of as I have dealt with them. Yes I have seen someone's head almost cut off, I have seen a lot of things, socities worst. It's not justification for a god mentaility nor violating anyones civil rights, or acting like an idiot. It does not make anyone special from my perspective.

As for this posting, I have no doubt that N.A. will attempt to " Destroy " my comments, Black Ceaser, will attempt to discredit it any way they can, with their little buddies. They will target me for whatever reasons they choose, not that I care. With this I will tip my hat to Damn Guard, Special Investigator, Hotel Security, Ctbgpo, as it's not hard to tell who the real security professionals are on these boards :O) Have a Great Day !!!!

**Marchetti, David, M** · 01-28-2007, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by Chucky

I don't have the stats but the amount of cops that commit suicide in this country each year will make your campaign hat spin.

Chucky: Not intended as an insult by any means, but yes I am aware of police officer suicides, the rates of alcoholism, domestic abuse issues, divorce rates, I am not an idiot here on these issues, I have had a few deamons of my own in the past. This also supports my opinion that at least 50% of Police Officers nation wide do have psychological issues and lack the mentality to effectively be good police officers. Just wearing the badge does not make you good, it's what you do with it in the end. Law Enforcement is a self hurting community in effect with a host of problems that remain undressed.

**SecTrainer** · 01-28-2007, 03:54 PM

This article ran in the Philadelphia Inquirer - the statistics provided here are very startling:

POLICE SUICIDE IS AN ALARMING PROBLEM RARELY DISCUSSED PUBLICLY
by Claude Lewis, The Philadelphia Inquirer

Stress is taking its toll on police officers throughout the nation, though it is a problem that many departments are loath to talk about publicly. And that includes Philadelphia's.

"It's difficult to put your arms around the problem, when so few people are willing to talk about it," said Councilman Michael Nutter. "Everyone knows it's a serious problem, but not many will discuss it."

New York City has a different attitude. Last week, police brass became so alarmed at the number of suicides among officers that it set in motion a new program to recruit and train cops as peer counselors.

In a police force of more than 30,000, suicides among officers have been on the rise. Fourteen uniformed men killed themselves last year. Others atempted suicide but were thwarted by alert officers who intervened in time.

A recent study revealed that New York City officers kill themselves at a rate of 29 per 100,000 a year. The rate of suicide in the general population is 12 per 100,000. Most of the victims are young males with no record of misconduct who shoot themselves while off duty.

Nationally, twice as many cops - about 300 annually - commit suicide as are killed in the line of duty, according to a study by the National Association of Police Chiefs.

In Philadelphia, officers with probIems sometimes receive help from the Employee Assistance Program within the department. Their concerns range from stress on the job to personal dilemmas that sometimes become overwhelming.

Michael Broader, a clinical psychologist, has been working with the EAP since July of this year. He says that "the dynamics of the job" sometimes lead officers to take their own lives. The fact that officers have a weapon strapped at their waist at all times also plays a role.

Alcohol is sometimes a factor, along with troubled marriages or relationships. Many policemen live with added pressure from families who complain that they "never have a day off."

It's difficult in Philadelphia to determine just why cops take their own lives, or how many, due to the state's confidentiality law. In addition, the police deny they keep such statistics.

Capt. Gus Carre, the commanding officer at EAP, did say stress among police officers is not unusual. "It's a difficult job made more difficult by the individuals that officers must deal with on a daily basis."

Many police officers see a steady diet of the grim underside of life that most people rarely see.

They are usually first at the scene when babies are killed, when wives are battered, when addicts die of an overdose or when accidents kill or maim citizens. It all takes its toll on even the most hard-nosed officers.

A few years ago in Northeast Philadelphia, an officer sat with his gun pressed to his, head for four hours. Finally, he was talked into putting his weapon down.

Unfortunately, not every situation is as easily resolved. Several times last year, Philadelphia officers killed themselves before help arrived.

Many officers here and throughout the nation refuse to seek needed assistance because they fear it will result in their being labeled "weak."

Police officers are almost always high on the list of suicide groups," says Mort Feldman, vice president of the chiefs' group. Feldman was a policeman in Florida for 30 years. "This is a national concern," he said in an interview. "What is needed is to separate Employee Assistance Programs from the police department. A liaison should be established between cops and mental health associations.

"Policemen are often reluctant to tell people in the chain of command they're having problems because they fear their careers will be destroyed. So they make the mistake of trying to solve their problems quietly and that often leads to alcohol or substance abuse or suicide."

Many suicides by police go unreported to avoid stigmatizing families and to allow them to collect insurance claims and other compensation.

Another officer admitted he's seen reports that list suicides under a broad classification of "accidental discharge of a weapon" that was anything but accidental.

Feldman says some police officers trade their wives and kids for the job: "If they're even questioned during an investigation, some officers who are completely clean feel betrayed by the job.... Occasionally, such an individual, feeling betrayed by his fellow officers, will kill himself because he feels he's been abandoned."

Feldman said his organization didn't keep statistics on police suicides by city "because I know we wouldn't be given the right numbers."

Although Philadelphia police refused to share their numbers, they are well aware how many officers kill themselves every year. They must think that hiding the problem will make it go away, but all that does is suggest that police suicides may be even more widespread than most people think.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Permission to republish granted by Claude Lewis and the Philadelphia Inquirer.

**Marchetti, David, M** · 02-05-2007, 11:10 AM

O.k. so cops kill themselves as I said just supports my position that some of them are mental twinkies, I'm more intrested in the suicide rates of Security Officers who commit suicide after all this is a message board for security and not cops, they have officer.com for their problems. No one keeps track of security officer suicides as we are expendable as a profession?, hummmmm.

**Bill Warnock** · 02-05-2007, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by Marchetti, David, M

O.k. so cops kill themselves as I said just supports my position that some of them are mental twinkies, I'm more intrested in the suicide rates of Security Officers who commit suicide after all this is a message board for security and not cops, they have officer.com for their problems. No one keeps track of security officer suicides as we are expendable as a profession?, hummmmm.

David you do not know whereof you speak. When these officers kill themselves, most have faced mental overload.
The mindset of a police officer can and is daunting.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

**T202** · 02-05-2007, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Marchetti, David, M

O.k. so cops kill themselves as I said just supports my position that some of them are mental twinkies, I'm more intrested in the suicide rates of Security Officers who commit suicide after all this is a message board for security and not cops, they have officer.com for their problems. No one keeps track of security officer suicides as we are expendable as a profession?, hummmmm.

I am hesitating to reply to your statement for fear of a repeat of “The History of the Watchman.”
I have had three friends that were police officers commit suicide. For you to refer to them as “mental twinkies” shows your true professionalism. And how would you refer to a security officer that has mental issues?

Bill I couldn't agree more with you.

**Marchetti, David, M** · 02-05-2007, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by Bill Warnock

David you do not know whereof you speak. When these officers kill themselves, most have faced mental overload.
The mindset of a police officer can and is daunting.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

Umm and Security is not? like I said take it to Officer.Com as this is a SECURITY board.

**Curtis Baillie** · 02-05-2007, 02:31 PM

Very funny! You're directing people to take their post(s) to another site. Just how arrogant can you be?

I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

**Marchetti, David, M** · 02-05-2007, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Security Consultant

Very funny! You're directing people to take their post(s) to another site. Just how arrogant can you be?

I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

YOUR MISSING THE POINT - I DON'T HONESTLY CARE HOW MANY POLICE OFFICERS KILL THEMSELVES I AM MORE INTRESTED IN SUICIDE RATES OF SECURITY OFFICERS, THIS SITE IS FOR SECURITY NOT POLICE SO YOUR POLICE TOPICS ARE BETTER OFF ADDRESSED SOME WHERE ELSE LIKE OFFICER.COM A SISTER SITE OF THIS ONE ACCORDING TO OFFICER.COM BYE........ SMILES CAN BE AS ARROGANT AS ANY POLICE OFFICER HOW THAT?.

**Bill Warnock** · 02-05-2007, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by T202

I am hesitating to reply to your statement for fear of a repeat of “The History of the Watchman.”
I have had three friends that were police officers commit suicide. For you to refer to them as “mental twinkies” shows your true professionalism. And how would you refer to a security officer that has mental issues?

Bill I couldn't agree more with you.

T202, thank you. My daughter is an ER nurse supervisor. After a particularly grisly shift, two mental health counselors show up and talk to all the staff. Schools have grief counselors to handle the aftermath of carnage, traffic accidents, shootings and suicides. Fire fighters have professional counselors. Police officers also are now being afforded mandatory counselling. In the aftermath of 9/11 grief counselors from every discipline went to meet with all the survivors and relatives of those who parished, this included security companies and the former New York City Mayor stated in his recently released book.
The US Military has come late to the table of grief and are scrambling to do all they can to assist service members. The problem is there not that many trained mental health professionals to do the job.Post tramatic shock syndrome is finally be realized as a serious mental health issue and dealt with. The stigma of having emotions is finally being laid to rest. There is no need to restort to alcohol to try to expunge the mind or lessen the impact of personal trauma. For many former military, police, doctors, nurses and security officers suffering this syndrome the dawn of reality sadly came entirely to late.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

**davis002** · 02-05-2007, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by Marchetti, David, M

YOUR MISSING THE POINT - I DON'T HONESTLY CARE HOW MANY POLICE OFFICERS KILL THEMSELVES I AM MORE INTRESTED IN SUICIDE RATES OF SECURITY OFFICERS, THIS SITE IS FOR SECURITY NOT POLICE SO YOUR POLICE TOPICS ARE BETTER OFF ADDRESSED SOME WHERE ELSE LIKE OFFICER.COM A SISTER SITE OF THIS ONE ACCORDING TO OFFICER.COM BYE........ SMILES CAN BE AS ARROGANT AS ANY POLICE OFFICER HOW THAT?.

Honestly, it's you that should go somewhere else. You have absolutely zero credability here, and you just cannot go more than a few days without showing your disrespect for others, especially those in law enforcement. It's frightening that someone who brags about his years of experience and being an owner acts so unprofessional whenever someone debates one of your viewpoints or theories. Do you show this same attitude towards clients if they question the actions of you or your employees? Don't expect anyone to take you seriously until you get rid of that chip on your shoulder and stop foaming at the mouth anytime someone disagrees with you.

**Bill Warnock** · 02-05-2007, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by davis002

Honestly, it's you that should go somewhere else. You have absolutely zero credability here, and you just cannot go more than a few days without showing your disrespect for others, especially those in law enforcement. It's frightening that someone who brags about his years of experience and being an owner acts so unprofessional whenever someone debates one of your viewpoints or theories. Do you show this same attitude towards clients if they question the actions of you or your employees? Don't expect anyone to take you seriously until you get rid of that chip on your shoulder and stop foaming at the mouth anytime someone disagrees with you.

Davis002 I know I wrote I'd stay out of this, but David is walking around with his buttocks resting on his shoulders.
Bill

**HotelSecurity** · 02-05-2007, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Bill Warnock

Davis002 I know I wrote I'd stay out of this, but David is walking around with his buttocks resting on his shoulders.
Bill

Bill,
Enjoy the day

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