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  • #31
    It really depends on your state. In many cases, stopping someone to determine legitimacy on the property you have control over is not an unlawful detention. You can ask them, and if they fail to prove their legitimacy, then you can throw them off the property or arrest them for trespassing.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #32
      I dunno, Oregon has it drummed into our heads that we cannot do that, in a car. On foot, or bicycle your fair game. I even got into a discussion with a former co-worker, to settle the debate I called DPSST/PS and was told flat out there is no way any s/o can stop a vehicle using a security vehicle with warning type lights whether to determine legitimacy on property or anything. I was flat out told that was considered a traffic stop and a no no for us to do.

      So I guess to the rest of us in Oregon, check before you try it.
      ~Super Ninja Sniper~
      Corbier's Commandos

      Nemo me impune lacessit

      Grammical and Spelling errors may occur form time to time. Yoov bin worned

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      • #33
        We use Red / Amber {360 directional} LED bar Lights on our new patrol vehicles. - We also have Red / Amber LED Flashers in the grill and at the rear of the vehicles.

        We make emergency responses and vehicle stops on our refinery {we're over 1000 acres of property so basically a small city with in a city and a port.}

        No sirens though, Only our supervisor unit {2006 Explorer} has the siren. We have an Air-Horn and speaker system which does the job.

        This is in Philadelphia, Pa. - I'm not versed in the lighting laws but would imigiane because we handle emergencies both on and off site red is acceptable

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        • #34
          Lights

          Our patrols have a full range of colors. Our Facility Patrol and our Medic/Patrol have Suburbans with Red, White and Blue light bars. Our off site patrols have Blue and White bars and our Courier/Patrols (300+ miles per day) have blue and amber bars. Our supervisor's cars have red and blue dash or grill lights.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Here4th$
            Our patrols have a full range of colors. Our Facility Patrol and our Medic/Patrol have Suburbans with Red, White and Blue light bars. Our off site patrols have Blue and White bars and our Courier/Patrols (300+ miles per day) have blue and amber bars. Our supervisor's cars have red and blue dash or grill lights.
            Land of the Midnight Sun? Colored lightbars?

            Purcell? Alyeska?
            Last edited by OccamsRazor; 01-27-2007, 02:32 PM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by ValleyOne
              I dunno, Oregon has it drummed into our heads that we cannot do that, in a car. On foot, or bicycle your fair game. I even got into a discussion with a former co-worker, to settle the debate I called DPSST/PS and was told flat out there is no way any s/o can stop a vehicle using a security vehicle with warning type lights whether to determine legitimacy on property or anything. I was flat out told that was considered a traffic stop and a no no for us to do.

              So I guess to the rest of us in Oregon, check before you try it.
              Sounds like something DPSST would say... Even though OR allows security to do a LOT in the way of enforcement, sometimes I think they WANT nothing but warm-body companies...

              Again, though, this depends on the area. A couple of the companies I mentioned to you previously, perform traffic stops all the time, (Usually, they're only done in the middle of the night, on properties where it can already be assumed that the person has no valid reason for being there) for the exact reason that N.A. mentioned. The key thing about it, is you have the right as an S/O to find out why this person is on your property. HOWEVER, because you're not a LEO, that person has no legal obligation to pull over for you, unless they've committed a crime and you're attempting to arrest them. Hence, where the 'unlawful detainment' comes in, if they haven't committed any crime.

              It's funny, isn't it, how the same law can be interpretted differently depending on the area. In the P-town area, the 'impersonation of a LEO' law is interpreted in such a way, that you can't actually be charged with it UNLESS you're impersonating a LEO in order to commit a crime of some sort, or gain some sort of advantage that you wouldn't normally have. (Access to restricted areas, etc.) On the other hand, the 'unlawful detainment' law is taken VERY seriously, and they nail S/Os for it all the time for the slightest mistakes.

              I guess it all boils down to knowing the laws, knowing the local PDs' view on them, and knowing what you can/cannot do.
              Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
              Originally posted by ValleyOne
              BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
              Shoulda called in sick.
              Be safe!

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              • #37
                Last night on the news they did a story about a blue light bandit pulling woman over on the north east side of Columbus. the guy is driving a white crown vic with red/blue dash lights and no markings on the car. After watching the story i was thinking great this going to be another reason for the P.D. to screw with security. I would say about 90% of the Security companies here have white crown vics for patrol cars and some of them do have dash lights but in green and amber, our vics are well marked. To make things worse we have 4 properties in the area this is going on. the story ran on channel 6 news/ local fox news. it was headlined as "phony cop"
                SGT. WARD

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                • #38
                  That happens quite frequently. The best thing you can do is call in any unmarked white CV in that area that is stopping motorists if it doesn't seem kosher. You should be familiar enough with LE in your area to know when something appears suspicious.
                  Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by T202
                    Here is the run down on lights in Michigan. What you can and can't have is all in the Motor Vehicle Code.

                    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/af...ing_8570_7.pdf
                    My bad, I forgot that when we used red emergency lights at the mall I work we were in houseat the time. Sorry to post bad info.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                      Look in CVC to see if a law enforcement officer can order someone to violate the traffic code. I know that in Florida, a law enforcement officer may violate almost any provision of Chapter 312 & 316 (Florida's Traffic Code) with a blanket authority, and several statutes specifically authorize a LEO to order someone to commit a violation.
                      2800.(a) CVC.It is unlawful to willfully fail or refuse to comply with
                      a lawful order, signal, or direction of a peace officer, as defined
                      in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of
                      the Penal Code, when that peace officer is in uniform and is
                      performing duties pursuant to any of the provisions of this code, or
                      to refuse to submit to a lawful inspection pursuant to this code.
                      (b) Except as authorized pursuant to Section 24004, it is unlawful
                      to fail or refuse to comply with a lawful out-of-service order
                      issued by an authorized employee of the Department of the California
                      Highway Patrol or by a uniformed peace officer, as defined in Chapter
                      4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal
                      Code, when that peace officer or authorized employee is performing
                      duties pursuant to any provision of this code and the out-of-service
                      order complies with Section 395.13 or 396.9 of Title 49 of the Code
                      of Federal Regulations.
                      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke.

                      Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?

                      www.patrol4u.com


                      sigpic

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                      • #41
                        Like I said, I wouldn't recommending trying it, and I dont use them.

                        Last Post: I was told that line from a sec agency owner who I worked for in the past.

                        Personally I like Amber/Green.
                        Last edited by SJPA-Agency; 07-29-2009, 06:18 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Red to front is illegal; Blue anywhere is illegal.

                          I use Amber/White.
                          Last edited by SJPA-Agency; 07-29-2009, 06:17 AM. Reason: Fix

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                          • #43
                            There's something else one must remember: Will a reasonable person, based on your actions, believe that you are a law enforcement officer exercising official authority during your stop?

                            Its the totality of the thing. If a person reasonably believes that you are a cop when you pull them over, then there's a problem and you can go to jail for impersonating.

                            After all, we have: Someone dressed like the police, displaying police-like lights in police-like colors, driving a police-like vehicle, and using a police-like siren.

                            This is the slope that people talk about. Now, if the vehicle is marked security or some other term that does not lead a reasonable person to believe you are a police officer acting on official authority, then there isn't a problem.

                            Is someone truly required to stop when demanded by the agent of the owner for the purposes of acertaining identification? Most likely not. However, at that time, they're obviously not welcome on the property, so a simple, "You need to leave, if you don't, you'll be arrested" gets the point across. No one really has to stop for anyone but a police officer effecting a terry stop. However, once they refuse to prove their legitimacy on the property by failing to cooperate, I'd say that a reasonable person would believe they're a trespasser, and need to be told to leave.

                            Further, the orders from an S/O are only those of a property owner. The only recourse we have (and its a big one) is to order them to depart, then use force to remove them if they refuse to leave after the order is given, or in some cases, make an arrest for trespassing.

                            Most lawful orders issued by police come under the "failure to obey a lawful order" crime, or "obstructing an officer." (Florida has no resisting arrest law, only obstructing an officer, which is broader than resisting arrest.)

                            Unless your state gives you the power to give lawful orders, and makes it illegal, then there is no criminal recourse against someone who refuses to obey any order but "leave."
                            Some Kind of Commando Leader

                            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                            • #44
                              Yeah, the average person might think your a cop if you spotlight'em and have flashing amber lights. However I still think that people should obey the orders of a S/O regardless, unless there unlawful of course.

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                              • #45
                                amen to that
                                SGT. WARD

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