Security/policing in Canada

[bigshotceo]

Hi;

Allow me to introduce myself-I'm a criminology student and security guard from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. I can't help but notice that the way security/policing is done in the United States is far different than it's done in Canada. Because of my rather extensive knowledge of how security/policing is done in Canada, I'd like to answer any questions you may have.

[pfd1615]

Can Amercians get work up there lol

[bigshotceo]

Can Amercians get work up there lol

Sort of. To get into the RCMP (the mounties) you must be a Canadian citizen. Most other police forces will accept permanent residents. However, the process here is VERY competitive and it's unlikely as a non-citizen you'll get in, unless you're a visible minority. Other LEO jobs are often the same way.

In terms of security, it wouldn't be a problem. Security jobs aren't that good here, though, so it's nothing you'd want to move for.

[pfd1615]

cool thanks for the quick answer!

[N. A. Corbier]

Describe the average security guard's duties, powers, and mission? Are they used to protect people, protect property, or protect neither and only observe? Are they authorized to be armed with a handgun? With intermediate weapons?

[IrishGuard]

Private Security - Canada

The Corp of Commissionaires in Canada appear to be a very professional private security organisation.

http://www.commissionaires.ca

The Corp of Commissionaires also exist in Australia and the UK and like Canada are recruited from retired military and police.

[bigshotceo]

Sorry it took so long to reply..night shifts...

Describe the average security guard's duties, powers, and mission?

Well, let's break this apart:

The average guard's duties, quite simply, are to keep everything running ok. This means making sure things are safe and secure. We put a stop to actions which are damaging to the property or the clients.

The average guard has no more of less powers than that of a private citizen, and a land owner (in relation to what happens on that land). This, however, does allow for a lot of power/discretion. In Ontario at least, according to the Trespass to Property Act, I can place someone under citizen's arrest for any criminal act or prohibited act (prohibited act is something that was made very clear via signage that it was not permitted, such as skateboarding or trespassing). As well, I can arrest someone for not leaving when directed by a representative of the property owner (ie a security guard). I'm required immediately after the arrest to notify the police.

Searching someone after arrest is kind of a grey area. There's nothing in the laws that permit or disallow it; it's been generally accepted that it's OK to search someone immediately after arresting them out of fear that they may have weapons on them; it you find things like drugs, etc, you pretty much have to ignore it.

It should be noted that a citizen's arrest is no different according to Canadian law than one by a peace officer (we only use the term "citizen's arrest" as signifying it was not in fact a peace officer arresting). Various crimes related to arrest such as resisting arrest apply equally to arrest by a non-peace officer.

As well, while a security guard has these powers, it doesn't mean they'll use them. In fact, many companies forbid or disapprove of their employees arresting anyone because
a) there's a liability factor
b) it costs money to teach people how to arrest someone and the legal principles involved
c) the arresting guard would have to testify in court, and the company would have to pay the guard's time.

Of the companies that do permit their guards to arrest people, many won't out of fear of liability and safety.

The average guard's mission tends to be to gain experience that will be useful in a policing career. Most guards (especially ones that work for more police-style companies) want to be police officers. It should be noted, however, that most of these guards are in fact entirely professional in their duties and don't let their policing ambitions get in the way.

Are they used to protect people, protect property, or protect neither and only observe? Are they authorized to be armed with a handgun? With intermediate weapons?

Most guards are present to protect both people and property via deterrence. It's really hard to divide the two. While most companies use the "observe and report" ideal, they expect that guards will generally take care of a situation themselves.

In terms of weapons; before I make a statement on this, you need to understand the culture of Canada. Here, we generally feel safe and don't feel we need weapons to make us safer. Many things that are legal in most US states, such as tasers, concealed firearms, and pepper spray are banned here. In fact, many law enforcement organizations don't have access to the equipment they need. For example, our border guards (along with many other law enforcement organizations) aren't armed with firearms.

"Are guards authorized to be armed with a handgun"? Generally, no. The only time that guards in Canada are allowed to carry firearms are those guarding cash or other items of high value; as well, in special circumstances guards working in the north can carry them to protect against wild animals. It is technically possible to be permitted to carry a firearm for other purposes, but I haven't ever heard of anyone receiving a permit for it. Tasers are an absolute no.

In terms of intermediate weapons, it varies from province to province. In Ontario, any type of pepper spray is forbidden for guards to carry; the sole exception being dog handlers, the theory being that the guard could need it if his or her dog becomes uncontrollable. In-house guards may carry an ASP, as it isn't technically a prohibited weapon. (regular batons, such as straight-stick and PR-24's are). Contract guards are forbidden from carrying asps, but can receive a permit to carry a straight-stick or ASP on certain sites (yes, it's weird that way).

Some provinces ban handcuffs; Ontario does not, with the sole stipulation that contract guards must carry them in a pouch or something similar (ie not hanging off a belt)

[S/O245]

As i understand it drugs and other violent crimes have been going up in canada. Also armed gangs with guns,knives and other weapons are going up. A Police Officer was just killed in the line of duty this week in canada. I remember hearing. I have a a pretty good friend who lives in canada who happend to see a man get stabbed by another man. What are some of the gangs names in canada ?

Were i live close by to Indiana they have not had a murder in over i think 10 or 15 yrs in this city and a guy went on a trip to England out that way and was killed by a violent attacker. He was killed with a knife from behind. Then the criminals took money from him. A female police officer was also killed a few weeks back i think it was one of them places where street officers are not suppose to carry a weapon. She was stabbed to death.

I feel that not allowing officers and security officers, military and lawful citizens to have certain defense items is wrong. because the violent criminals, gang members and even terrorists all have weapons. One weapon used more than stolen guns is knives by criminals. A knife can be alot worse than being shot sometimes. Criminals and other types will use anything to harm or kill people. They do it every day.

According to the FBI violent crime has gone down in the USA. In My State once we passed our CCW Law our crime rate droped. The FBI Says States with CCW have 25 % lower violent crime than states without it. Also helping is to make sure criminals stay in prison. Under Pres Clintons admin i read where the avg prisoners did not even serve 1/4th of his/her sentence. Criminals were going on the street too quick. They are the repeat offenders causing alot of the crimes. Take a look at for example the guy who was a black panther gang member. The Pres Clin admin refused to prosecute him several times. He stole a gun he also used a car to run over someone. He shot a deputy in atlanta to death. But if he were in prison like he should have been none of it would have happend. Violent Criminals need to stay in prison long enough like they should. That also helps lower crime. But if you dont allow people to defend them self the only people who come out on top are the killers.

Here im not suppose to carry OC state law says any citizen age 18 or above can buy and carry for self defense. My rights are being violated daily. We deserve the same protection everyone else is permited to have.

[N. A. Corbier]

As far as the right to carry OC, and the requirement your employer has not to... Your rights are not technically being violated. A private citizen has the right to carry OC. The liability for its use is for you, and you alone. You notice that you don't need a "permit" or a "license" to buy pepper spray as a private citizen. You walk into the store, you buy it with a pack of gum, you walk out.

When you work for an employer, the employer shares the liability of your carrying a weapon. Just as the company shares the liability of you talking to people, touching them, or otherwise doing your job. Most companies will either require training (to deal with the liability issue by showing that they exercized due dilligence in training you in how it should be used, in case you use it wrong, it was YOU, not them...), or they will simply ban its carry.

The solution, as hard as it seems, is to switch to an employer that authorizes its carry.

I would wager that you are not authorized to confront an individual, either. If there is a problem, rule violation, or disorder, you call the police department who removes the violator. Am I correct?

[Warren]

I like this kind of thread...thats why I brought it up from the dead...lol

In Canada it is absolutely prohibited to carry OC spray, or bear spray (unless you are hunting), security doesn't apply to this.

In regards to ASP and cuff's. THAT is up to each individual province in Canada. In Saskatchewan, where I am, I can carry a baton (or ASP), with basic baton training. Handcuffs are the same..you need the training to carry the cuffs.

In regards to arrest/detention (a piece that was covered fairly well previously by another Canadian member). Arrests can be made when the officer witnessed the activity ONLY, and chase can only be "fresh pursuit". If you lose site of the person you are chasing, you are obligated to stop.

You may detain people ONLY on the following (based on section 494 of the Criminal Code). 1) Criminal code offences, Provincial and local laws ARE NOT enforcable or detainable by security personnel, or the private citizen for that matter. 2) You may detain on breech of the peace, which can cover a number of areas, but it is self explanatory.

As far as policing, there is a HUGE shortage of police coming up. Many many people are retiring, leaving. Edmonton Police just went to England to recruit for the police department....there MAY indeed be a way to become a police officer here via immigration.

Warren

[hemi444]

if you dont mind me asking, hwhat is the cost of living and the general pay scale for pivate security in Canada?

[bigshotceo]

As Warren noted, there is a difference in arrest powers between provinces. There's section 494 of the CCC (federal laws), and most provinces have some sort of trespass act, which gives additional powers to representatives of the landowners (security guards). In Ontario, for example, we can arrest upon witnessed violation of provincial laws.

As for Hemi's question; Private security in Canada does not pay very well at all; most site guards make anywhere from minimum wage to $2 or $3 above minimum wage. Supervisors are rarely paid much better. Armoured car guards tend to make more money (often $10 or $11 to start, with decent raises/benefits)-this is mainly due to the fact that few guards have a licence to carry firearms (and are willing to carry one). There are a few good security jobs (universities, some industrial sites, etc..) but they seem to be few and far between.

The cost of living in Canada can vary. In Canada, our rural areas cost about the same as rural areas in the US (expect that your heating bills will be higher). What doesn't happen in Canada (unlike the US) is that it's not crazy expensive to find relatively affordable housing in the cities (I haven't heard stores, for example, of one bedroom apartments going for $2500 a month in any city, except maybe a few very fancy buildings).

[Warren]

I know here in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan...a city with the population of about 210,000 people, cost of living is average.

Our apartment is a 2 bedroom, about 750sq.ft, and we pay $600.00 per month, plus power (50$), telephone($50), satellite (100) and internet (30). Gasoline is 92.0 cents per litre.

Food costs us (a family of 2 adults, 1- 8 year old), about $300.

Security in this place pays terrible. Impact Security pays 7.35/hr and about $10.00/hr for mobile/supervisors.

Im hiring a FT mobile guard who said he would be happy to start @ $9.00per hour, no benefits. Things need to change here, thats for sure. Training is a joke here, most places will send you out on a temporary license for 3 months, most likely by yourself. Very lame.

I ran an ad for guards recently, and you wouldn't believe the crap I got for quality. Out of 30 applicants, 4 were acceptable for mobile, and many of the rest, I wouldn't trust to manage themselves...things need to change here, and soon.

[N. A. Corbier]

I know here in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan...a city with the population of about 210,000 people, cost of living is average.

Our apartment is a 2 bedroom, about 750sq.ft, and we pay $600.00 per month, plus power (50$), telephone($50), satellite (100) and internet (30). Gasoline is 92.0 cents per litre.

Food costs us (a family of 2 adults, 1- 8 year old), about $300.

Security in this place pays terrible. Impact Security pays 7.35/hr and about $10.00/hr for mobile/supervisors.

Im hiring a FT mobile guard who said he would be happy to start @ $9.00per hour, no benefits. Things need to change here, thats for sure. Training is a joke here, most places will send you out on a temporary license for 3 months, most likely by yourself. Very lame.

I ran an ad for guards recently, and you wouldn't believe the crap I got for quality. Out of 30 applicants, 4 were acceptable for mobile, and many of the rest, I wouldn't trust to manage themselves...things need to change here, and soon.

Don't forget to basically double any amount he talks about, to compare it to USD. I think its 1.8 or something like that now.