Opinons wanted

[Ranch Ranger]

Hello all,

I work for a large ranch resort covering almost 15,000 acres, 300 acres are developed RV and Cabin sites with a motel and riding stables. Theres also a general store on the property the rest is comprised of a shooting range, Offroading area, Hunting area as well as thousands of riding trails for horsebacking. This ranch is 40 miles from the nearest town and on a highway that winds from the coast and connects to the interstate. The response time of the local sheriffs dept is 45 minutes. As a security Officer my duties include patroling the ranches developed areas as well as the farthest reaches of the ranch looking for any suspicious activity (poaching,trespassing and any offroad vehicle(ATV,Motorcyle) infractions and the ranch speed limits. My duties take me into the mountains at night checking remote gates and livestock. I also standby as the clerk in the store counts the daily monies. I then take control of the deposit and transport it to a secure holding site. Part of my duties is the checking in and out of customers running a cash register taking in large amounts of money. Me and my fellow employees do this while unarmed. The question is should we be armed?

[davis002]

Based on what you are saying, I would say that you could make a valid argument for being armed. Being armed raises liability and insurance. Your best bet is to speak with your supervisor/manager, and raise your concerns and opinions as to why you should be armed.

[gonzo1510]

It sounds like you ought to be armed, especially if you are dealing with store reciepts and the fact that you are in a remote area... but as always, it's up to the powers that be to make that decision. Are you allowed to carry batons and OC spray ?

[Ranch Ranger]

Based on what you are saying, I would say that you could make a valid argument for being armed. Being armed raises liability and insurance. Your best bet is to speak with your supervisor/manager, and raise your concerns and opinions as to why you should be armed.

This is true. But, having one of us getting shot. Because we are unarmed and unable to defend ourselves is going to bring an even bigger lawsuit.

[davis002]

This is true. But, having one of us getting shot. Because we are unarmed and unable to defend ourselves is going to bring an even bigger lawsuit.

I agree with you 100%, i'm just stating what they may or may not be thinking. Are you equipped with anything? OC, Baton, Handcuffs, etc?

[Ranch Ranger]

It sounds like you ought to be armed, especially if you are dealing with store reciepts and the fact that you are in a remote area... but as always, it's up to the powers that be to make that decision. Are you allowed to carry batons and OC spray ?

No, we are not allowed batons or OC spray. Alot of my fellow officers in the past have expressed interest in being armned. Hopefully changes will be brought around since, we have recently hired a new Chief. Who seems pretty squared away.

[davis002]

No, we are not allowed batons or OC spray. Alot of my fellow officers in the past have expressed interest in being armned. Hopefully changes will be brought around since, we have recently hired a new Chief. Who seems pretty squared away.

Have they explained why you are not allowed to carry OC or batons?

[SecTrainer]

I'd be interested in knowing a few things:

1. Are you patrolling alone in the isolated areas you describe?

2. What's the history, both of the property and the surrounding area with regard to serious crimes, especially those involving weapons?

3. How often do you have to deal with trespassers who are or may be armed, such as the poachers you mentioned?

These factors would all impact whether there is increased liability that the property/company could face for FAILING to arm officers.

There's no "rule", of course, as to precisely what tips the scale for or against the decision for officers to be armed. Sadly, and often unwisely, the "default" decision is usually not to arm officers until an unfortunate incident occurs, resulting in harm to an officer or a guest at the ranch. The reasons for this have already been mentioned, i.e. the increased liability and insurance, not to mention the cost of firearms, the training and perhaps increased licensing costs in some states....all of which come down to money, making this a rather cold-blooded fiscal risk-management decision, which can only be countered by showing that arming officers makes better sense in the same terms. The precarious position in which the unarmed security officer might find himself doesn't seem to influence the bean-counters very much, unfortunately.

Sometimes management can be pursuaded to take a modified position, i.e. arming only certain officers based on their particular assignments, or arming only supervisors. In one similar situation I know of, the officers themselves do not carry sidearms but carry Tasers and OC spray (no batons!), and there is a rifle mounted in each of the patrol trucks. The officers are trained and qualified on that firearm, with very specific and limited deployment orders. I don't particularly like this approach, but it's better than nothing.

[Doc757]

I got stationed in a bank when i worked for securitas back in the day, i advised them to arm me, or else. they chose the later "or else", and i chose to find a new job.

I, personally, wouldn't take another unarmed job in my lifetime. I say better to have options then no options at all. I suppose it's all in your comfort level as well. On the other side of the coin I worked Patrol stopping cars without a side arm and didn't think much of it.

[Ranch Ranger]

Have they explained why you are not allowed to carry OC or batons?

No they have not. But I will discuss this with them.

[GCMC Security]

No they have not. But I will discuss this with them.

Tell them your scared of the critters

[Bill Warnock]

Ranch Ranger you are putting yourself in grave peril of your own volition. Unless you are desparate for money and will lose everything without this particular position the risks do not outway rewards. As for your heirs being able to take legal action if you are killed on the job or you to seek regress if injured, I'd say you are sorely mistaken. You know the risks and have agreed to accept them; you've sought to better your situation by asking for being "under arms," and have been rebuffed; and still you stay.
What police or advanced security skills do you bring to the table? If none or very little, if I were you, I'd move on!
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[ACP01]

Even if they do not agree to arm you against crimes how about against wildlife?

If you posted where you are I missed it.
In certain areas there are problems of bears, coyotes, puma, feral dogs, rabid animals and other things that can pose a risk to you and to the ranch guests.
The weapons used against these could also be used against criminal type animals also.

Hell even here in WV I don't gointo the woods unarmed due to bears, feral dogs and such.

[Mall Director]

In your situation.. I would most definately, as you do not have the support of response on your side. Know how many rednecks with firearms there ae out there..LOL, just kidding, but the previous I am serious about.

Explain this to them.. Cost of liability insurance VS. cost of replacement of dead officer.

[Eric]

Before going armed, can you look at some alternatives?

A secure room for money counting
A drop safe for storage
Pick up by Brinks etc instead of you
Robbery training for all involved
Complete procedures / policy
Basic physical security - cameras, signage, good lighting, CPTED