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Security Association: Expectations, Dues, Etc...

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  • #16
    Not all Fraternal Service Organizations are unions, though. In "our" case, we are not a union and the Articles of Association specifically state that. It'd sorta be like Order of Eagles folks crossing a picket line.

    Unless, of course, a local votes to amend their AoAs to create a de-facto labor relations board and become labor certified. Then, that would be very bad mojo to break a strike line.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #17
      Originally posted by james2go30
      You all raise good points...as well as point out quite clearly the negative results. I have to agree the points raised and voiced by both Nathan and Trainer. I do think we need some type of orginazation to help and protect us and overall benifit not only but the profession have chosen to work. The hard part is getting enough s/o's to take it serious enough to get it off the ground. Let's face...and I know you have all encountered this...a lot of s/o's are not even serious about their jobs as it is and only see it as check and not as the field that I have come to respect and enjoy. Too s/o's though don't care enough about security to give us a foot hold....true dedicated s/o's are thinly spread out. Well thats been my experiance...feel free to disagree.
      What he said

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      • #18
        Of course this is true. You have people who enjoy the fact that they have a political game to thrive in. Others that enjoy they are paid 6 dollars to 7 dollars an hour to sit in a guard house and read or work on their school work, with no expectation to do anything except write in the DAR or Log Book. (Which is usually filled out till end of shift with XX00 All Secure.)

        Professionalism through training and selection was met by one of our (seemingly disappeared) newer members with laughter and anger. OMG, they assign you a training officer for three months! OMG, they make you wait a few days before giving you a job! This sounds way too police, they're just security guards!

        This mentality is fostered by the large security companies, and it has even been expressed while testifying to the United States Congress, time and time again. "Security Guards are more than adequately trained by our member companies to observe and report. Requiring additional (read: any) training will place an undue hardship on our member companies, as the average security guard does not need this training!"

        When you have high level management at G4Securitas/G4Wackenhut echoing the same thing to USA Today and the US Congress, that being that security guard (never anything but security guard) standards are already too high for the "average" security guard, and that this training "simply isn't applicable" for the "average" guard... What do you think?

        The private security industry has created a culture of indifference to the job. This is internally fostered by the companies, as well as several outside influences, including the media and the police.

        After all, if you take your job seriously enough to seek additional training, or request additional wages, you will be told you are a "wannabe cop" or to sit down and STFU. "You're rocking the boat, I don't need to learn any of this crap, I just come to work, read my book, and sign people in."
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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        • #19
          I hope nothing I said about "starting local" is interpreted to mean that I don't support the idea of a national organization. But I would rather see an organization that is planted properly, takes roots and then spreads them out in a pattern of "controlled growth" than to see yet another meaningless effort because it tried to do too much too fast.

          If I lived anywhere near Nate, I would join with him and work like the dickens to form a local organization, enroll members and get just one REAL thing done - my vote for the first goal would probably be the establishment of a training standard for all members that would go considerably beyond the so-called "state minimums". The organization would then, obviously, be obliged to establish ways that the standard could be met and all officers would have, say, one year from the time they join to complete the training.

          There might be other goals that would be equally desirable or even more so, but the point is, I would work to get one thing done, and then another, and then another, and officers who join would get the clear message that this ain't a quilting bee or a corn-shucking contest, but a serious professional organization that intends to lift up its members. I would spread the word to local law enforcement agencies exactly what it means when they run across an officer who has been certified by this organization - i.e., not 40 or 80 hours of training but 160-240 hours at least, including homeland security subjects, security access systems, information security, special situations, principles of executive protection, physical fitness, self-defense and combat shooting (whether an officer currently held an armed post or not).

          ...and maybe the next goal would be to badger state legislators to raise the minimum standards for security officers. It's the security companies that are always lobbying for the lowest possible standards, as Nate points out, and someone needs to be the voice on the other side of the issue. Low standards will always mean low pay and poor management, and that's just fine with the security companies. Is it fine with us? Does it really secure the American public? Or is it, in fact, "the big lie" about security? You already know the answer.

          Once I had that proof-of-concept in hand, then I'd become a missionary for spreading the model around the country in order to build the prestige and influence of the organization, but you gotta have something to build on. The vacuum exists and has not been filled by existing organizations whatsoever. This means that there is a real opportunity for meaningful reform and advancement in this profession if it's done right.

          Signing up people from everywhere on earth and selling them a book to read in order to pass a test for "certification" doesn't cut the mustard for two reasons. First, there are a number of security subjects that simply cannot be taught this way. Second, the level of training provided in this single book is simply inadequate, sometimes to the point of being almost infantile. Yes, it's been marginally accepted here and there for the sole reason that there's nothing better around, but to me it's just another example that low standards will suck the oxygen out of any efforts to promote higher standards, like low state requirements do.

          It's time to do something different, and something better if we want tomorrow to look different than today in terms of our careers. Law enforcement finally had to be forced to face this harsh reality (and there was plenty of kicking and screaming about it from police administrators who turned out to be wrong), and it's time we did as well.
          Last edited by SecTrainer; 02-25-2007, 12:23 PM.
          "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

          "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

          "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

          "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mr. Security
            Boy, where to start..

            Scope: National
            Mission: Decent wage; Competent Officers; Safe Working Conditions; Public Relations Department w/ LE Liason
            Dues: Annual; based on wage and type of security

            Just as a start.

            I agree with this and i would definitely be interested

            Slan
            Martin

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            • #21
              Is Calsaga, an example of what you are talking about ?

              http://www.calsaga.org/index.cfm
              The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke.

              Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?

              www.patrol4u.com


              sigpic

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              • #22
                Originally posted by gonzo1510
                Is Calsaga, an example of what you are talking about ?

                http://www.calsaga.org/index.cfm
                Depends. Can individual officers join, or just business owners?

                There are already many, many, organizations and outright unions for business owners. ASIS, NASCO, <State>ASCO, etc.

                But very few for employees.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                • #23
                  Has anybody heard of the Security police and fire professionals of america?
                  Check it out the link is below




                  www.spfpa.org

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                  • #24
                    Yes, Calsaga is for both employees and employers.

                    Security police and fire professionals of america "represented" the employees of the armored car co. I worked for, but to be honest it was a short lived representation. I'm sure that they are excellent with the other groups they represent but it just didn't work for us.
                    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke.

                    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?

                    www.patrol4u.com


                    sigpic

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                    • #25
                      my thing about the associations is that i would love to join one but with a wife and a two year old i can't really afford to join one.
                      Todd

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