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  • #16
    I believe this is the incident you are referring to...

    Minnesota: Private guard shoots youth

    ------------------------------------------------

    "Before the shooting, Engle was questioning the teenager about a car stereo he had in his possession, police said Sunday. The boy, who lives in the apartment complex, ran from Engle and another guard, got into a car and tried to drive away, witnesses and police said."

    "Schnell said the guards had the suspect at gunpoint when the call came in, and moments later the call was changed to "shot had been fired."

    "Under state law, the same standards on the use of force apply to licensed police officers and private security guards alike, as well as to anyone making a citizen's arrest, Schnell said. "In general, it requires there be self-defense related or an imminent threat to self or others. Certainly, even in the course of a citizen's arrest, you're allowed to use reasonable force to take a person into custody. But obviously that has to be weighed against the crime for which the arrest is being sought."
    Last edited by davis002; 12-17-2006, 08:21 PM.
    "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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    • #17
      What's Minnesota's standard? Fleeing Felon, Fleeing Capital/Forcible Felon, or Fleeing Fugitive? I know some states still have "Fleeing Felon" for the threshold of shooting to prevent escape from arrest or prison.
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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      • #18
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
        What's Minnesota's standard? Fleeing Felon, Fleeing Capital/Forcible Felon, or Fleeing Fugitive? I know some states still have "Fleeing Felon" for the threshold of shooting to prevent escape from arrest or prison.
        ... or present an added danger to the community.
        Bill

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        • #19
          Originally posted by davis002
          I believe this is the incident you are referring to...

          Minnesota: Private guard shoots youth

          ------------------------------------------------

          "Before the shooting, Engle was questioning the teenager about a car stereo he had in his possession, police said Sunday. The boy, who lives in the apartment complex, ran from Engle and another guard, got into a car and tried to drive away, witnesses and police said."

          "Schnell said the guards had the suspect at gunpoint when the call came in, and moments later the call was changed to "shot had been fired."

          "Under state law, the same standards on the use of force apply to licensed police officers and private security guards alike, as well as to anyone making a citizen's arrest, Schnell said. "In general, it requires there be self-defense related or an imminent threat to self or others. Certainly, even in the course of a citizen's arrest, you're allowed to use reasonable force to take a person into custody. But obviously that has to be weighed against the crime for which the arrest is being sought."

          Good quote. I stopped paying attention to what the media says here in the Twin Cities because they either get it wrong or they don't report it at all. We had over 20 shots fired across our ambulance driveway where patients are unloaded, someone from WCCO and someone from Fox9 showed up while I was marking off shell casings and it still didn't make the news. The point I'm trying to make, is that I was told more about the situation and what happened (that he tried to run Engle down) then what the media chose to report. I'm not saying that nothing went wrong on Engle's side of things. We were always taught by Wolf's / On Guards's firearms instructers (who were currently employed police officers) to never have your finger on the trigger unless you know you're going to pull it. But, then again, we need to try to put ourselves in his position at that very moment. Did he feel he may get killed during this? They saw the kid inside the appartment building with the stereo in his hand. When they went to confront him, he ran to the parking lot and jumped in the driver seat. The rest is history that none of us whitnessed. It was a 14 year old boys word against an armed guards. Kudos for having the media quote.
          Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

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          • #20
            Actually, back in the day when Spartan Protection worked the particular property (1247 St. Anthony) and I was employed by Spartan, they assigned me there with nothing but a radio. Their policy was that you could not even carry a flashlight until you had impact weapon training, which they totaly dragged their feet on providing. I watched a guy get hit in the face with a brick right in front of me. There was nothing that I could do and I didn't even work as a deterant because the residents and frequent visitors knew that most of us carried no weapons there at that time. It is a rough place.
            Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

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            • #21
              If you work security in the twin cities, I think it's a requirement to know about the "Wolf Shooting". I fully understand that the twin cities news outlets are notorious for not reporting the full truth, but their own twisted version of it. I do know that the charges against Engle (aggravated assault) were eventually dropped, and according to his myspace profile, he is doing land surveying. From what I understand, he claimed he lost his balance and had an accidental discharge. That doesn't change the fact that his finger should of never been on the trigger (unless he was ready to shoot), but oh well. I have heard SO many variations of the story, and so many of the "I know what happened" stories.
              "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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              • #22
                Originally posted by davis002
                If you work security in the twin cities, I think it's a requirement to know about the "Wolf Shooting". I fully understand that the twin cities news outlets are notorious for not reporting the full truth, but their own twisted version of it. I do know that the charges against Engle (aggravated assault) were eventually dropped, and according to his myspace profile, he is doing land surveying. From what I understand, he claimed he lost his balance and had an accidental discharge. That doesn't change the fact that his finger should of never been on the trigger (unless he was ready to shoot), but oh well. I have heard SO many variations of the story, and so many of the "I know what happened" stories.

                I couldn't agree more...

                It was an unfortunate situation no matter how you look at it. I did have the opportunity to work with Engle when I was still employed by Wolf and I always thought he was one of the more competant one's working for them. If I remember correctly he was working toward his 4 year degree and he was thought very highly of by his fellow officers. What a waste.
                Last edited by sgtnewby; 12-19-2006, 12:22 AM.
                Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

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