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  • #46
    Originally posted by Security Consultant View Post
    Consider the 'private industry' company who had contracts with different branches of the government. They were caught giving gifts to government employees they were doing business with. In response the company had to put all of their employees through ethics to make sure they understood the federal laws. To this day all employees are required to undergo certified ethics training yearly.

    Consider the University President who somehow was allowed to place his name in a box to win an all expense paid trip to the Bahamas. His name was pullled as the winner. He understood that he was not allowed to win the trip -
    I don't think his wife still understands.

    The ethics laws for private industry doing business with the government are very exacting and must be strictly adheared to. But then, in many European countries all income from bribes is tax deductable and must be must be claimed as income.
    Whenever I shake the hand of anyone involved in GSA sales, I count my fingers afterwords, in any company I've ever worked for. Those guys are shadier than mortgage brokers.
    The CCTV Blog.

    "Expert" is something like "leader". It's not a title that you can ever claim for yourself no matter what you might know or might have done. It's a title that others bestow on you based on their assessment of what you know and what you have done.

    -SecTrainer

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    • #47
      I recall some blokes from Sylox who came around for a demonstration and were busy handing out free pocket screw driver kits to all my crew. I made sure the IT team got some, as these $3.00 items were valuable for them and for us to use in corporate security work.

      I think I now receive 5 free USB flash drives every month. I only use 3 at a time and after upgrading to the biggest sizes, now pass them on to my state based teams to use. Same as diaries ............ I still use a manual diary for records and once I find one that suits me I give away all others as I can only use 1 per year.
      "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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      • #48
        I'm just thinking out loud here. I like freebies as much as the next guy. Since I own the business, go ahead, Try and sway me with your stuff.

        That being said, shouldn't some thought be given to the ethics of tipping a security guard in some situations at least. I bring you free coffee, or cokes, or goodies, that don't cost me anything cause I get them free where I work (and you guard). Now one day, I'm lugging out a ream of printer paper. Or a toner cartridge. Or a monitor, used, yeah, they just got new ones. Or some carpet from this construction site. Know what I mean.

        It's one thing if it's the owner or boss, maybe another if it's not. On the other hand, some people are just nicer or friendlier. I guess, just bear the above in mind, and definitly question even the guy who's always extra nice.
        sigpic
        Rocket Science
        Making everything else look simple, since 1958.


        http://my.opera.com/integrator/blog/
        One Man's Opinion

        The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

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        • #49
          When interviewing for my 1st ever National LPM job I came clean with my to be boss and said - I don't drink with anyone, lunch with anyone or become friends outside of work with anyone due to the nature and conflict of interests in my role. I kept myself away from all of the BS and the buddy buddy system so I could avoid any issues when I investigated someone (even senior management) and pushed for criminal prosecution ...... oh yeah and terminating their sorry buttocks in the process.
          "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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          • #50
            Originally posted by NRM_Oz View Post
            When interviewing for my 1st ever National LPM job I came clean with my to be boss and said - I don't drink with anyone, lunch with anyone or become friends outside of work with anyone due to the nature and conflict of interests in my role. I kept myself away from all of the BS and the buddy buddy system so I could avoid any issues when I investigated someone (even senior management) and pushed for criminal prosecution ...... oh yeah and terminating their sorry buttocks in the process.
            A policy that has served me well for over 30 years.
            Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
            Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

            Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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            • #51
              Curtis I am an approachable person which is why my Intel is never ending with my employer and or clients - however I am not one to go drinking after hours or socialising with the bosses as I will enjoy the odd lunch and perhaps Xmas beer but sorry I am not into kissing buttocks or being made to be `the boy`. In that role I mentioned my boss was a very decent bloke who allowed me alot of lee-way but also respected that I informed him of anything that the CEO was going to want to know about.
              "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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              • #52
                I've always had an open door policy at work - I do not socialize outside of work with people I work with or for. I once had to interview/interrogate my boss who was later terminated.
                Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

                Comment


                • #53
                  Here is an ethics question for you on this topic:

                  Imagine you are a nurse. You have two patients, A & B. They are both equally sick. Your station is located between that rooms at equal distance. Patient A's family visits every day. They usually ignore you but when they do speak to you, they are rude. Patient B's family also visits every day. They are very friendly to you, invite you to share in meals they bring. They even bring you gifts from time to time.

                  One day you are at your station, neither family is present. The cardiac arest alarms for both A & B go off at the exact same moment. You know that help will be coming, but that it is to far away. You can save one, but not both. Which do you save, and why?


                  There is no RIGHT answer.
                  "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Andy Taylor View Post
                    Here is an ethics question for you on this topic:

                    Imagine you are a nurse. You have two patients, A & B. They are both equally sick. Your station is located between that rooms at equal distance. Patient A's family visits every day. They usually ignore you but when they do speak to you, they are rude. Patient B's family also visits every day. They are very friendly to you, invite you to share in meals they bring. They even bring you gifts from time to time.

                    One day you are at your station, neither family is present. The cardiac arest alarms for both A & B go off at the exact same moment. You know that help will be coming, but that it is to far away. You can save one, but not both. Which do you save, and why?


                    There is no RIGHT answer.
                    It would be interesting to see which way the mind directs your feet instinctivly if you did not join in meals, take gifts and did.

                    Add a fire to the story, do you save your self or the cardiac arrest duo?
                    Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted.
                    Groucho Marx

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                    • #55
                      When I made my reply I was thinking of my medical building. Accepting freebies from a doctor? Yeah, that could possibly be a conflict. He's hoping for some extra attention. But I was thinking mostly of all the patients that come and go, most of whom I will never see more than once. If help some old lady find her car in the parking garage and receive a tip have I set myself up for anything untoward? I don't think so. Unless you say that just sets myself up for the slippery slope. Sure its just an old lady now, but hey, maybe that lunch from a doctor isn't so different.

                      I certainly believe I know the boundaries and won't cross them, but if I was setting policy I wouldn't make any distinction.

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                      • #56
                        1 of the texts I had to study in my college days was called SCALES OF JUSTICE - 3 stories on corruption where a young cop is given a free coffee from a shop / kick backs from a funeral home / taking coats from a break and enter / taking bribes as in bundles of cash and then huge pay offs for protection (It has been 20 years since I read it). I repeatedly told my crew to WATCH their behaviour and it could be as simple as 1 staff member giving another a free lunch or something discounted.

                        At the private college I contracted with, street carparking was rare and campus building parking was abotu $350 US a month. There was building work in progress so parking after 0745 was very rare. I girl I worked with (reminded me of Paris Hilton) allowed her pass to be used by the 4 cafeteria staff to park for free in exchange for free lunches and coffees. I monitored this for a few weeks before presenting my case to the building manager - knowing it was lost income. He hit the roof when he found out the scam and had the girl's parking cancelled without refund. She resigned the next week - as did her co-worker who was also scamming the same deal.
                        "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          The officer I replaced at one post was fired because he enterd the deli after hours and took chips and other snacks. His justification? He left a dollar on the counter.

                          I've been "trained" by example that coffee, donuts/snacks, and even joining a tenant for a holiday or celebratory luncheon is acceptable, possible even good "PR." I appreciate this thread, it's given me a lot to consider in my own behavior and where exactly the line is. I'd actually been considering starting a similar thread on discussions with tenants/clients, such as what topics are off limits (ie family, kids, pets, past jobs, etc...)
                          That's a direct quote. Not word for word, but the gist of it.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            We had a lecture in the state police academy conducted by the Commander of a large city internal affairs unit. I remember him well - a very tall man with the look of someone who has seen it all. He did not believe that "ethics" was really all that complicated to people who desire to act ethically. We know what is right, and what is wrong, and we only begin to debate "the complexities of ethical behavior" when we start searching for "reasons" or "rationalizations" to cross over the line into unethical behavior.

                            He had a very simple rule for police officers to follow: Avoid even the appearance of corruption. "If it doesn't come in your pay envelope, you cannot accept it." He then paused for what seemed like an eternity, glaring down at us from beneath the lofty heights of his bushy eyebrows and said with emphasis on each word: "...and I doubt very seriously that you'll find coffee, donuts, or bacon and eggs in your pay envelope." He then went on to tell a number of stories about the perils of the "free lunch" that made us see "small favors" like that in a very different light. The "free lunch" has compromised more than one police officer.

                            The Commander made a lasting impression on many of us. I never drank one free cup of coffee as a cop (except when it was free to everyone, of course), or ate one free meal. And, I don't know of any of my fellow officer candidates who followed the commander's rule during their careers and who ever found themselves in ethical difficulties. Unfortunately, there were others who sold their careers cheap. Small compromises slowly tarnish the badge, and there's no Brasso for that kind of tarnish.

                            SIDEBAR: By policy, we were also prohibited from participating in political campaigns for awhile, although the policy was ultimately reversed or dropped. While it was in effect, I didn't even talk politics with my neighbors. I believe that political action has been prohibited by state law for members of some city police departments, due to a history of political corruption in those cities. Supporting a candidate can be seen as a way of "paying it forward", so to speak. The candidate wins and then "repays" the favor. It's a dicey game, though, if the "department candidate" doesn't win!
                            Last edited by SecTrainer; 11-20-2007, 05:48 PM.
                            "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                            "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                            "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                            "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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                            • #59
                              Growing up this was my code of ethics. Still fits today.

                              The Cowboy Code – by Gene Autry

                              1. The Cowboy must never shoot first, hit a smaller man, or take unfair advantage.

                              2. He must never go back on his word, or a trust confided in him.

                              3. He must always tell the truth.

                              4. He must be gentle with children, the elderly, and animals.

                              5. He must not advocate or possess racially or religiously intolerant ideas.

                              6. He must help people in distress.

                              7. He must be a good worker.

                              8. He must keep himself clean in thought, speech, action, and personal habits.

                              9. He must respect women, parents, and his nation's laws.

                              10. The Cowboy is a Patriot.
                              Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                              Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                              Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
                                We had a lecture in the state police academy conducted by the Commander of a large city internal affairs unit. I remember him well - a very tall man with the look of someone who has seen it all. He did not believe that "ethics" was really all that complicated to people who desire to act ethically. We know what is right, and what is wrong, and we only begin to debate "the complexities of ethical behavior" when we start searching for "reasons" or "rationalizations" to cross over the line into unethical behavior.

                                He had a very simple rule for police officers to follow: Avoid even the appearance of corruption. "If it doesn't come in your pay envelope, you cannot accept it." He then paused for what seemed like an eternity, glaring down at us from beneath the lofty heights of his bushy eyebrows and said with emphasis on each word: "...and I doubt very seriously that you'll find coffee, donuts, or bacon and eggs in your pay envelope." He then went on to tell a number of stories about the perils of the "free lunch" that made us see "small favors" like that in a very different light. The "free lunch" has compromised more than one police officer.

                                The Commander made a lasting impression on many of us. I never drank one free cup of coffee as a cop (except when it was free to everyone, of course), or ate one free meal. And, I don't know of any of my fellow officer candidates who followed the commander's rule during their careers and who ever found themselves in ethical difficulties. Unfortunately, there were others who sold their careers cheap. Small compromises slowly tarnish the badge, and there's no Brasso for that kind of tarnish.

                                SIDEBAR: By policy, we were also prohibited from participating in political campaigns for awhile, although the policy was ultimately reversed or dropped. While it was in effect, I didn't even talk politics with my neighbors. I believe that political action has been prohibited by state law for members of some city police departments, due to a history of political corruption in those cities. Supporting a candidate can be seen as a way of "paying it forward", so to speak. The candidate wins and then "repays" the favor. It's a dicey game, though, if the "department candidate" doesn't win!
                                I like your post.

                                Deciding Between Right and Wrong – Listening to Our Inner Voice

                                “Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may be looking”. - Henry Louis Mencken, "Sententiae," This and That: A Mencken Chrestomathy, 1948

                                We all have it – you know that inner voice that continuously talks to us. Thomas Magnum, of Magnum PI fame, had it. Our inner voice, developed early in life, is the minds loud speaker - our moral and ethical subconscious. The inner voice is always right, it’s when we try to justify and rationalize that we make poor ethical decisions. This is just a piece of what I wrote on the topic of ethics for an upcoming publication.
                                Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                                Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                                Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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