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  • Training References/Ideas

    Our company is starting up a completely new training program. Daat, First aid and CPR, Intro to Security, Foot/Vehicular patrols and company and State rules and regs.

    I am looking for any training software, videos, ideas on training for our security guards that we could do in-house. Any and all suggestions would be definately appreciated!

    Also, for any of you WI guys, since there is no real certification system in WI for oc, handcuffing and baton usage, could the company give out our own certifications after our officers went through our own company approved course? I guess it would be just be a piece of paper that might not be official other than the company backs up their guards training. Any insight?

  • #2
    Originally posted by WISecurityGuy
    Also, for any of you WI guys, since there is no real certification system in WI for oc, handcuffing and baton usage, could the company give out our own certifications after our officers went through our own company approved course? I guess it would be just be a piece of paper that might not be official other than the company backs up their guards training. Any insight?
    Are they allowed to carry it?

    If so, by all means give them a training course and a company certificate. If they ever have to testify due to a use of force incident they can show that they were "properly trained"

    Comment


    • #3
      You're going to need to get an ASP instructor on board, and use him to train your personnel. Just call up ASP and ask, "When is the next ASP Master Instructor program," then send a guy.

      Creating your own baton programs isn't admissible in most courts. This is because they want to see a body of case law behind the training, so they look to the manufacturers.

      As far as OC, you can get OC training from MSI or someone else, just send someone to MSI's school.

      For software, I would be happy to help setup a Moodle Online Training system for a fixed fee. We currently use Moodle at NAPSOA, and Cityscape Solutions has setup Moodle installations before.

      Keep in mind that Moodle is just a framework for online course delivery. It is free, open source, and people only pay for the installation and setup costs, along with training fees.

      The fact you are actually trying to put together a training program speaks volumes about your organization, in a state where the entire licensing process is "pay some money and go to work without training."

      I do suggest one thing, though... Allow your clients access to the online and physical training, especially prospective clients. Most companies consider it some kind og OMG TRADE SECRET, but clients like to know what they're getting.
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by GCMC Security
        Are they allowed to carry it?

        If so, by all means give them a training course and a company certificate. If they ever have to testify due to a use of force incident they can show that they were "properly trained"
        Wisconsin has no rules on carrying weapons, other than weight and type restrictions on OC spray (15-60 grams, up to 10% OC only, no other additives like dye or CS/CN.)

        Since security personnel have no additional powers (there are no blanket exemptions to carry firearms or weapons other than carrying in a moving vehicle) than private citizens, they are authorized to carry weapons same as any other citizen.
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

        Comment


        • #5
          My view

          After talking to a former ADA about training for companies and what the courts may want, he pointed out one interesting fact. WI courts consider anyone with more experiance, knowledge, and training than a normal citizen as an "expert". Regardless of their position, they can be considered an expert in many different subject matters. Also, WI case law pertaining to security and less-lethal, non-lethal options is pretty sparse. Having a state certified LEO train someone in the use of baton and pepper spray would be considered expert training, hopefully that LEO would be DAAT certified and it would probably help if they were a DAAT instructor. I know Monadnock will stand behind its course cirruculum regardless of what type of baton an officer uses, as long as it is taught by a certified instructor (Monadnock only gives its instructor training to LEOs as far as I can tell). I don't know if ASP will do the same if the officer uses an other than ASP baton.

          Comment


          • #6
            Corbier, forgive me if this sounds dumb, but who is MSI?

            I think it would be best to send a officer out to the asp training as you suggested. This would definately help in our new training program.

            As it is right now, our company does a full 3 day orientation/training course. However, the oc and baton parts really need a complete overhaulin! It is still way more than most companies train other officers around here, however, we want it to be one of the best.

            Also, could you explain a little more about Moodle? I have not heard of this either.

            Thanks for all who responded. Its nice to know there are actually people who take their time out to help others in this industry. Definately not seen around here as competition is about as cut-throat as it can get!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by WISecurityGuy
              Corbier, forgive me if this sounds dumb, but who is MSI?

              I think it would be best to send a officer out to the asp training as you suggested. This would definately help in our new training program.

              As it is right now, our company does a full 3 day orientation/training course. However, the oc and baton parts really need a complete overhaulin! It is still way more than most companies train other officers around here, however, we want it to be one of the best.

              Also, could you explain a little more about Moodle? I have not heard of this either.

              Thanks for all who responded. Its nice to know there are actually people who take their time out to help others in this industry. Definately not seen around here as competition is about as cut-throat as it can get!
              WISecurityGuy:
              That is what this forum is all about; we can and do learn from others. What has been received should be given be given to others who ask or just posted for the benefit of all.
              There will always be room enough for all of us.
              Enjoy the day,
              Bill

              Comment


              • #8
                I'd suggest that your first step be to consult with your company legal counsel regarding potential liabilities related to training programs because poorly conceived or conducted training programs, those that don't meet established industry standards, etc. can actually increase your legal exposure.

                A useful second step would be for all the individuals who are involved in creating, teaching and/or approving the training program to read Practical Security Training by Patrick Kane (Butterworth-Heinemann). This book is more about training methods, whereas The Effective Security Officer's Training Manual (also Butterworth-Heinemann) provides more of a topic-specific template for a complete training program. No one will likely agree with everything that is suggested in either of these books, but when used together they provide a solid framework for creating your program. I do not recommend the IFPO security officer's training manual for a variety of reasons.

                In general, I agree with Mr. Corbier and others who have suggested that there are some aspects of training - especially anything having to do with lethal and less-lethal weapons (Tasers, OCP, etc.) - that you would be well-advised to "contract" those subjects to training companies that specialize in them.
                Last edited by SecTrainer; 12-03-2006, 03:09 PM.
                "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by WISecurityGuy
                  Corbier, forgive me if this sounds dumb, but who is MSI?

                  I think it would be best to send a officer out to the asp training as you suggested. This would definately help in our new training program.

                  As it is right now, our company does a full 3 day orientation/training course. However, the oc and baton parts really need a complete overhaulin! It is still way more than most companies train other officers around here, however, we want it to be one of the best.

                  Also, could you explain a little more about Moodle? I have not heard of this either.

                  Thanks for all who responded. Its nice to know there are actually people who take their time out to help others in this industry. Definately not seen around here as competition is about as cut-throat as it can get!
                  It doesn't sound dumb. MSI is the civilian verision of Federal Labs/Defense Technologies, and makes the MACE brand of OC/CS/CN sprays.

                  Basically, go to armorholdings.com, select Federal Labs/Def Tech, and call em up about instructors, they know every certified instructor in the world.

                  ASP is local to us, in Brookfield, I believe. They're somewhere around here, close. ASP Master Instructors can instruct instructors, and instructors can instruct operators.

                  Monadnock will also train professional security officers as trainers, but you have to be instantant with them. I am authorized to take the Trainer Course after I take a PR-24 course, that came from getting on the horn with the Director of Training and submitting my previous experience with them.

                  Now, Moodle... Have you ever taken an online college course using Blackboard or another program? Moodle is a courseware software. It basically allows for people to create a framework and develop courses. Mall Director, Bigdog, Aka Bull and myself are familiar with the NAPSOA installation of Moodle.

                  Basically, Moodle is a PHP-driven program that runs on a webserver (including shared hosting, like the kind you buy from a hosting company) and allows students to register, provides courses, grades them, allows teachers to interact with students, etc.

                  It is used extensively in primary and secondary education, both public and private, and is "the best thing to deal with the potential bird flu home-schooling problem" as some educators put it.

                  You have "teacher" accounts create content. It can be text files, HTML files, powerpoint presentations, video, audio, flash... It goes into the Moodle "Course" framework. You can create tests, quizzes, blogs, forums, and a bunch of other metrics and collaboration assets. Students can select, enroll, study, and complete their courses.

                  You can read more about Moodle at http://www.moodle.org/
                  Some Kind of Commando Leader

                  "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ASP is local... hhhhhhmmmmmm, guess I need to find a phone number. As for the PR-24 course, let me know if you ever get instructor certified, I know a few people at the company that I work for who might be interested in taking that course. Ah, just found the contact info for ASP, its in Appleton, just due north of us Corbier.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dumb Questions

                      There is no such thing is a dumb question when asked in a sincere manner. We might want to give short shrift, but if we know the answer asked by a fellow professional we should show professionalism and give a honest answer. If someone feels embarrassed, the can use the PM or if they know the person's email use that. We might all learn something. I know fellow members of this forum have greatly aided me and for that I am sincerely grateful.
                      Enjoy the day,
                      Bill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Moodle's a good, free Web-based learning platform. (There are others that are equally capable and well-respected such as ATutor, Sakai, etc. however, and are also free.) It's been around awhile, has a large installed base and has most of the management features needed by a training program. Like any Web application, there are some technical issues involved in installing and running it on your own server or on a hosted server. However, these can be minimized by finding one of the many web hosting services that have experience in Moodle sites and can offer either their own installation or the "Fantastico installer", which makes installing not only Moodle but many other Web applications much easier.

                        There are also hosting services that specialize in offering Moodle sites. This is different from "having experience" with setting up Moodle on a Web server and many of these services are experts not only in Moodle, but in adult education more generally, and can help you in a number of ways...but they are also more expensive.

                        An alternative to Moodle (or ATutor, etc.) is to use Nicenet (see link below). Nicenet is a completely free, easy-to-use platform that lets you set up any number of courses you want and deliver them over the Internet. It's very widely used by every kind of instructor from kindergarten teachers to college professors and company trainers. When they first started up years ago I wondered when they would just "go away" like many other neat Internet ideas, but they've been around for years now, just growing like Topsy and appearing to have sufficient support so that Nicenet is now a permanent feature of the e-learning landscape and isn't going anywhere. In other words, you can put your weight down on it.

                        I must note, however, that Nicenet is a course-delivery or "classroom" platform ONLY - not a "complete school" like Moodle. It has enrollment features (you send enrollees a course code or they can't get in), but it won't track anyone's progress, etc. If you want some features like real-time chat, discussions, etc., you'll need to set up a separate Website and install those applications (again, I'd suggest a host who offers the Fantastico installer), and then provide links from your Nicenet classroom to your Website.

                        Nevertheless, a "classroom" model like Nicenet is probably a very sensible choice for a program that merely intends to deliver course content (for some of its courses) to people over the Web. A training program that also includes on-site classroom training, off-site training, exercises, etc., can use a completely separate training management model, especially if the number of trainees is fairly small (say, under 100). For instance, you could use a very simple Access or Excel application to track student progress, and it's fairly easy to give such applications fairly sophisticated capabilities...such as notifying you by email when a student doesn't finish a course on time or needs to enroll in the next course. I've written several of these apps.

                        For the sake of simplicity and speed, I'd certainly consider using Nicenet and the "classroom" model rather than the "school" model. You'll get up to speed much faster and meanwhile you can set up a Moodle school and learn how to use it - really play around with it and learn what it can do (and what it can't do as well!) - without potentially accidentally wiping out your training program! Then, when you have some Moodle knowledge, you can quite easily move everything in your Nicenet classrooms to your Moodle site.

                        In summary, then, here's what I'd suggest you might consider doing:

                        1. Visit Nicenet, set up a free instructor account, set up a "blank course" and learn how to use your Nicenet classroom...should take an hour, max. Very, very easy to use.

                        2. Select a good Website host with Moodle capabilities and the Fantastico installer (if they have Fantastico, they have Moodle, which is one of the several dozen excellent applications that Fantastico will install for you). As you will be using Moodle, it's best to find out what version of PHP they use and restrict yourself to one using version 4.3.x or 5.1.x. Versions 4.4.x and 5.0.x. seem to give Moodle some heartburn according to a number of comments on the Web. Just ask the potential hosting provider before signing up which version of PHP they use. (Moodle and many other applications - like phpBB mentioned in #3 - use PHP as their language or "engine", you could call it.)

                        3. On your Website, before you set up Moodle, set up one of the Fantastico discussion boards like phpBB, etc. to accommodate classroom discussions. Since phpBB plays nicely with any version of PHP, you can let the Moodle/PHP issue mentioned above drive this decision.

                        4. In your Nicenet classroom, link to your discussion board...if you have more than one classroom going simultaneously, create separate threads for each class and link directly from each classroom to each thread. You can also translate the Nicenet "classroom" paradigm to the "module" paradigm - setting up each "class" as a sequence of "modules". For training programs (as opposed to college classes, for instance), modules are usually the best learning delivery unit, and should be kept very short - taking 20 minutes or so to complete them - if you want to maintain student interest and progress.

                        5. Set up a completely separate "management" system for enrolling, testing and tracking students. It doesn't matter if this is a pen-and-ink ledger book in a file cabinet to start with, particularly as I'm assuming a fairly small enrollment for your program to start with.

                        6. On your Website, install Moodle and read the documentation. You might also want to visit any of the sites where Moodle is discussed in forums to get some insight into the creative ways people use Moodle, and also the problems and bugs it has. Set up courses and practice playing the administrative, instructor AND STUDENT roles. The latter point cannot be overemphasized - you must know what experience students will have in your training program. Get instructors trained up in using Moodle as well. Do this in parallel with your "real" training program over on Nicenet.

                        7. Down the road, and when you're fully ready to do so, move your Nicenet classrooms over to Moodle. By this time, you'll easily see how to do this without any grief - especially if you've been simultaneously uploading course content to both Nicenet and your Moodle school the whole time.

                        8. If you create standard courses that other security programs might be interested in using, consider (once you have everything running well) turning your program into a profit center...or at least supporting itself...by offering to allow their employees to enroll for some reasonable tuition or fee. If you're concerned about helping the "competition", you could limit such offerings to companies that have in-house security programs rather than other vendors. This would be an interesting entree to such companies (who are almost always thinking about outsourcing some or all of their programs!)...

                        Feel free to shoot me a private message if I can be of further help! I also have a lot of materials on adult education methods and training principles and practices, including e-learning, that would be useful for you to explore. The only other thing I'd say is to encourage your company to commit itself to excellence in training...and not just the issuance of certificates.
                        Last edited by SecTrainer; 12-04-2006, 08:06 AM.
                        "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                        "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                        "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                        "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          One thing about Fantastico:

                          Sometimes the host or upstream doesn't update the Fantastico installer, and you get old versions of programs. I know of several hosts who are still installing phpBB 2.0.11 through Fantastico!

                          Always check version numbers and ensure that you're running the proper version, even if you have to install it manually.
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                            One thing about Fantastico:

                            Sometimes the host or upstream doesn't update the Fantastico installer, and you get old versions of programs. I know of several hosts who are still installing phpBB 2.0.11 through Fantastico!

                            Always check version numbers and ensure that you're running the proper version, even if you have to install it manually.
                            Very good point, and one that I have also observed.
                            "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                            "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                            "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                            "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                            Comment

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