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Killed in the Line of Duty

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by 3rd_shift
    I work for a security company that is just over 100 years old.

    http://www.smithprotective.com/

    It's a shame that there are those who feel that security has no good purpose in our society,
    even though there is clear evidence over the last 100+ years that security is indeed for the most part, a good idea.
    This is why it's an instant no sale for me, when I find someone on either side of the law with no respect, or appreciation for security.
    I don't get mad at them, but just rather consider them as another iceberg to steer clear of.
    Well, hell. That outfit dosen't look like *coughWackenhutcough* half bad.

    Leave a comment:


  • 3rd_shift
    replied
    I work for a security company that is just over 100 years old.

    http://www.smithprotective.com/

    It's a shame that there are those who feel that security has no good purpose in our society,
    even though there is clear evidence over the last 100+ years that security is indeed for the most part, a good idea.
    This is why it's an instant no sale for me, when I find someone on either side of the law with no respect, or appreciation for security.
    I don't get mad at them, but just rather consider them as another iceberg to steer clear of.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by S/O245
    You are right S/Os dont get the respct they deserve. Day in & day out security officers are injured and some even get killed in the line of duty. The person incharge of our training is a retired LEO. ANd he said now days sometimes wearing a uniform means nothing as far as respect. But I think we may be able to do our best to help change that. I have been thinking about making a web page or something in for Security Officers Killed In The Line of Duty. And also putting some things on the page for LEOS, Fire/EMS and Military. I would like to see a web site built that will show others what the job is about. And not some bull crap of a tv show made up by writers at a table.

    I have e-mailed the presidentbush to voice my concern and plan to e-mail the national law enforcement officer memorial i would like to see them put something up to honor fallen s/o's. Im not sure they may already have one. I e-mailed presdent bush and others about issues relating to S/O's. I think alot of people just think Security just sit around. And i got news for them alot more goes on than what the avg person thinks. If anyone would like to get with me on some ideas of a web site to give honor to the active,retired and fallen security officers send me a private msg. Thanks

    Stay Safe All
    Funny you should mention that making a webpage thing. I just got the idea early yesterday, sat down, and installed a forum for the purpose, among others.

    The National Fallen Law Enforcement Officer's Memorial is for sworn law enforcement officers, serving a public authority, only. They specifically stated this, so as to preclude law enforcement officers working as specials for private companies.

    I do not believe that the Memorial should be tasked with anything other than the mission their governing board has envisioned. I believe a seperate memorial group should be set up, incorporated as a non-profit, and that people should back it. Just as Firefighters have their own, and EMS personnel (I hope), private security concerns should have one.

    There is a website created by a company owner in NYC, http://www.securityofficermemorialfund.org/, however, this appears to focus primarily on NYC and 9/11. They have their battles to fight, and may not be powerful enough to deal with a fund on a national basis.

    If someone wants to make a metric ton of PR, has access to fundraisers, government, and spin doctors, then I would suggest that their company would advance greatly by sponsoring such a memorial. Of course, first, they would have to counter the tide of negative publicity that security officers recieve in the media, before people would give to them.

    I mean, hell. When's the last time you had a security officer's benevolence fund call you at dinner time, asking for a donation? We get it all the time from FOP, PBA, WPPA, and a dozen other bonafide law enforcement unions and associations.

    Then again, when you see a security company sponsoring something in the civic area, its that company.

    Leave a comment:


  • S/O245
    replied
    As far as checking ids and stuff i know of police officers who have chcked to make sure other officers are who they say they are.

    As far as responce time in the city of cincinnati is cane be a while for things. But i have listend to CPD and heard the same officers go from domestic violence calls, drug deal calls, street violent robbery and many other things. They are always busy in the Districts.

    As far as the question about chasing the subject who stole something I probably would not give chase. If your un armed and you go running after them after they run away and they place no threat to your or others at the time you really have no reason to give chase. Your primary objective is to protect life & property. Just like the trespassers i have when i called the PD and 5 Officers Responded within 2 to 3 mins I did not follow them. They walked off My post's property. I spotted them at the back fence area and i hit a light on them. They kept walking i was on the phone with PD. I had no reason to walk up towards the area they went to. I walked to a certain point to kinda hide my location and see if they left my area. And like I said before im un armed. I would be crazy to go after them. Another thing say if i did go up towards them. Im now off my property and on someone elses property. My main thing is to protect life & property on my post. They left my posts property so they were no longer a problem to me. But i did hear PD hit the siren and yell at someone to stop the vehicle. So i guess between me calling and the PD they became the PD's problem lol. And me thinks the PD handled that problem.

    Stay Safe All

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by S/O245
    You are right S/Os don't get the respect they deserve.
    I applaud your efforts but like N. A. Corbier stated, the bulk of s/o's are serving the private interest sector not the general public. Does that mean our job is insignificant? By no means! However, if we can't convince many in LE that we merit respect, what chance do we have with the public? They won't even respect the police. If I'm proven wrong, I be surprised - but happy!

    Leave a comment:


  • S/O245
    replied
    You are right S/Os dont get the respct they deserve. Day in & day out security officers are injured and some even get killed in the line of duty. The person incharge of our training is a retired LEO. ANd he said now days sometimes wearing a uniform means nothing as far as respect. But I think we may be able to do our best to help change that. I have been thinking about making a web page or something in for Security Officers Killed In The Line of Duty. And also putting some things on the page for LEOS, Fire/EMS and Military. I would like to see a web site built that will show others what the job is about. And not some bull crap of a tv show made up by writers at a table.

    I have e-mailed the presidentbush to voice my concern and plan to e-mail the national law enforcement officer memorial i would like to see them put something up to honor fallen s/o's. Im not sure they may already have one. I e-mailed presdent bush and others about issues relating to S/O's. I think alot of people just think Security just sit around. And i got news for them alot more goes on than what the avg person thinks. If anyone would like to get with me on some ideas of a web site to give honor to the active,retired and fallen security officers send me a private msg. Thanks

    Stay Safe All

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    A long time ago they had a story on national TV about security officers in a large city required to wear fake guns. The guard demonstrated by removing a revolver looking device from the holster and pulling the trigger. All that was heard was snap, snap, snap! The company owner justified the measure because he could not get his company registered to hire armed guards and wanted to give those people to whom he protected a sense of security and wellbeing.
    I've heard and seen situations like subsequent to that program.
    N. A. Corbier is correct in his analysis, "warm to the touch," ask no questions and just stand there. See something suspicious, notify LE. With what? The guard would have to run to phone if there was one nearby and state what he had seen. Then to add insult to injury, the guard was dismissed for abandoning his post.
    Don't try to make sense of it, just shake your head and be glad it was not you.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • 1stWatch
    replied
    Well stated indeed. The only problems with that are you have to keep up with p.d. politics and who's who in supervision to know who you can trust. It's also a problem when the person's immediate supervisor supports the problem. Immediate phone numbers of trusted commanders, recordings, calls to the media, and a lawyer on retainer certainly help out a lot when you run into those troubles.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    In some areas of the city, police even try to arrest security because they don't like having to come out for them. It's common to hear comments from them like "why do you have this guy illegally detained" when no one at the scene was detained. They have even gone as far as to make armed security lie face down on the ground while in uniform while running them for warrants, just as a gesture of humiliation.
    I'm saving this as reason why every officer in a cruiser in my company will be wired for sound and dash cams installed. First time this happens, I go to the watch commander, with questions. Second time, I go to the media.

    I've seen this game played. I've seen police officers LOCKED OUT of residental complexes because they were Billy Badass, while other police officers were allowed in. The ones who were locked out bitched and moaned, threatened arrest, but its hard to arrest someone when your on one side of an 8 foot fence, and the person with the unlock button is on the other. The police were allowed in. Just not Billy Badass.

    These are the kinds of games where you have to get cell phone numbers of sector officers who you trust to do their job, without some personal vendetta against another profession.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1stWatch
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    There are some, a large majority, who say that a security guard has no business stepping out of a car and approaching anyone, that is the job of law enforcement. That the security guard should observe the issue, then report it to their client, who will call law enforcement to respond. Several states, as well, seem to be in this line of thinking.
    That is the mentality most of the security companies around here do have; however, the expectation does not fit in with the reality. Call 911 in Dallas and expect to wait at least 50 minutes for an officer to respond. This is mainly due to a shortage of police officers and a long backlog of calls which are prioritized and placed in a hard paper list. The police get to pick and choose which calls they go on.

    Every night they get hundreds of calls from upset security guards, most of them who have no gun with them, screaming "I need help, I need help" and when police get to the scene, there is often an issue either: 1) created by an overly aggressive security guard who contributed to a perceived problem rather than solve it, 2) a perceived problem that is actually not a problem, not a criminal offense, and nothing the police can do with it, due to lack of training for the guard, 3) security expecting police to arrest a suspect when there is not sufficient evidence or proper probable cause for search and seizure, or 4) an incorrect message relayed to police over the phone because of poor communication skills.

    Much of the time when security calls for police these days, the s/o is verbally abused by the 911 operator or the operator argues with the s/o or doesn't believe he is telling the truth about what is going on. For example, a call I made a couple of years ago about a homeless man with aids who was trying to attack people at a store with a box cutter and was screaming at his own hallucinations was relayed as "suspect possibly drunk, possibly homeless, cutting himself". The cops took an hour and five minutes to respond after taking their daisy sweet time.

    In some areas of the city, police even try to arrest security because they don't like having to come out for them. It's common to hear comments from them like "why do you have this guy illegally detained" when no one at the scene was detained. They have even gone as far as to make armed security lie face down on the ground while in uniform while running them for warrants, just as a gesture of humiliation.

    The idea of calling 911 in Dallas anytime you have suspicious activity or any kind of verbal disturbance is just pointless. If you want to be successful around here working in an environment like that, know the cops' job as well as your own and be capable enough to handle your own job without expecting them to do it for you. They do respond quickly to very high priority calls such as shootings, stabbings, or riots so they should indeed be called for that - but don't expect them to respond just because someone is trying to attack you with fists or is "getting in your face".

    The security companies and "industry" thinks one way, but reality quickly shows its ugly face when you're really faced with a dangerous situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by wilrobnson
    Sadly, I quoted it verbatim.
    I know. Its social commentary. They used the word patrolling, most likely, because "providing a visible deterrant" can get them in hot water legally. One of the first things that an attorney would do in a suit is subpoena all of those training materials.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    Fixed the typo on that question. Also, the employee should call 911 so that the company is not involved in the actual situation, as the guard has completed his visible deterrance function, and is not contractually obligated to respond to the incident.
    Sadly, I quoted it verbatim.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by wilrobnson
    Sounds like a certain company I work for. A question they posed to us in 'orientation' was thus:

    You're working an unarmed post in a jewelry store when an employee screams out that she is being robbed. You look over and see a male grab a handful of jewels from the display case and run out the door. The employee shouts to you to chase the male. Do you:

    a) Give chase and arrest the thief
    b) Chase the thief only as far as the door, then call 911
    c) Call 911 and remain at your post.
    d) Do not give chase; it would take time away from your primary purpose, which is providing a visible deterrant. The employee should call 911, as she could give the best description of the thief.

    Yes, the correct answer was 'd'...Isn't the correct one always the longest one?
    Fixed the typo on that question. Also, the employee should call 911 so that the company is not involved in the actual situation, as the guard has completed his visible deterrance function, and is not contractually obligated to respond to the incident.

    As far as a 6 dollar an hour job, reread the posts above about the employee, the family, etc. I have a feeling this person didn't have a choice. You stand there, in a uniform, you don't do much, and nobody told you anything about the property. You just punch in, punch out, and get a check sent home.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    When general society begins believing that the job of private security is more than "observe activity, report to police, do not become involved"...
    Sounds like a certain company I work for. A question they posed to us in 'orientation' was thus:

    You're working an unarmed post in a jewelry store when an employee screams out that she is being robbed. You look over and see a male grab a handful of jewels from the display case and run out the door. The employee shouts to you to chase the male. Do you:

    a) Give chase and arrest the thief
    b) Chase the thief only as far as the door, then call 911
    c) Call 911 and remain at your post.
    d) Do not give chase; it would take time away from your primary purpose, which is patrolling. The employee should call 911, as she could give the best description of the thief.

    Yes, the correct answer was 'd'...Isn't the correct one always the longest one?

    Leave a comment:


  • 3rd_shift
    replied
    $6 an hour is incredibly crappy even for an unarmed post in Dallas Tx.
    $9-15 an hour is the norm for armed security in Dallas Tx.
    Not sure why this guy was doing this crap for $6 an hour at such a raunchy place.
    Northwest Dallas has plenty of liquer, topless entertainment and urbanblight.
    Even the cleaning crew at the building I work at can make $6 an hour easy in a safe and easy place to work where US citizenship is optional legal or not.
    WTF was this guy doing this high risk work for so little $ for ?!?!

    Leave a comment:

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