Tasers

[bigdog]

Do you feel that security officers should be able to carry and use tasers? Also how much training do u feel a security officer should have before carrying a taser?

[N. A. Corbier]

Since security officers are private citizens, and tasers are authorized for civilian carry in 43 states, I'd have to say "yes," and "the Taser Citizen Defense System Course."

Citizens are already allowed to carry them. Security officers are no different than other civilians, so prohibiting them from carrying them is stupid.

For states that prohibit tasers in the hands of civilians, the law should be changed for general civilian carry before security officers are issued tasers, unless they have some police powers that cover them from liability in its use, as no other private citizen is granted the priveliage of their use - this would be a liability point. In that case, they should be issued by the federal/state/local agency issuing the priveliage, and should be trained by that agency to LE standards for Taser use, and required to abide by state LE Taser Use of Force policy.

[Echos13]

I would like very much to have one of these units. I use to carry a standard stun gun that you have to touch the subject with but I stopped just because of that very reason. Why they call these stun devices "gun" is way off. These Tasers and Stingers are nice, but e-gads! They cost more than most firearms. If I could afford the unit and the training I would do it. Can't seem to convence the boss. Not because of the controversy that has been developing about them. It's the cost.

[Arff312]

I feel that officers shoudl be able to carry these. But as i do with all other weapons we carry i feel we should have to get the same training as the police do in the weapon. I feel this way for OC, Baton, Taser, Weaponless defense and even Powers to arrest. I feel that all these classed should be a lot longer. In califonia you can carry the same equipment as a cop with only 80 hrs training. That is rediculous and dangerous i feel. Like it or not weather you think so we are a form of law enforcement. We should have similar training. Now i usderstand that alot of Guards are just checking ids or something like that for a factory etcc. But for officers working patrol functions such as Malls, Apartments, Shopping Centers etc... there should be more law enforcement based training. Thats just my .02 cents.

[1stWatch]

I feel the training should be congruous with the other training developed for use of force, including empty hands, baton, oc spray, handgun, shotgun, and rifle. The number of hours for the course is only as important as the practicality of the curriculum. The training should make the weapon integrate with the rest of a practical use of force system. I feel people should not be able to carry the weapon until they can demonstrate proficiency and sound judgement in a practical training environment. Then, it should be carried and accounted for at all times while in uniform.

[N. A. Corbier]

Accountability is an important factor in any agency taser deployment. The only concern is that the taser's accountability systems are built into the law enforcement only models, the M26 and X26-E. The civilian models have no network connectivity, as the brochures and questions I've asked of Taser International, have lead me to believe.

For those agencies that don't want the X26C Citizen Defense System, the M18L is a viable alternative. However, I have no idea if you can buy the ethernet data retrieveal cord for your Taser M18, and if there is an actual accountability mode built into the M18.

Taser, with its media image problem, is keep the police versions of its systems closely guarded indeed - there is no way to get your hands on a unit wiht accountability systems. Taser's belief seems to be that only sworn law enforcement agencies require to keep track of taser usage - security companies and private military contractors do not.

[Mr. Security]

Do you feel that security officers should be able to carry and use tasers? Also how much training do u feel a security officer should have before carrying a taser?

Beats deadly force. Personally, I have no desire to carry one. For those who do, remember that these devices are not non-lethal. They are classified as less-than-lethal because there are documented cases were death has occurred. If you use it for anything short of a life-threatening situation and death occurs, could you live with that? I couldn't.

[N. A. Corbier]

Beats deadly force. Personally, I have no desire to carry one. For those who do, remember that these devices are not non-lethal. They are classified as less-than-lethal because there are documented cases were death has occurred. If you use it for anything short of a life-threatening situation and death occurs, could you live with that? I couldn't.

Actually, Taser International reported that DoD/USMC classifies the weapon as NON-LETHAL. Remember, you use OC, and OC has been linked to deaths, as well. Nothing is completely non-lethal, including your voice. You might yell at a suspect for compliance, and they die of a heart attack due to the excitement.

[Mr. Security]

Actually, Taser International reported that DoD/USMC classifies the weapon as NON-LETHAL. Remember, you use OC, and OC has been linked to deaths, as well. Nothing is completely non-lethal, including your voice. You might yell at a suspect for compliance, and they die of a heart attack due to the excitement.

Is that classification universal or is it just limited to DoD/USMC? I agree with you on the OC though. As far as your analogy of someone having a heart attack because they are yelled at, which is more likely to cause death? OC and tasers or verbal commands?

[N. A. Corbier]

Is that classification universal or is it just limited to DoD/USMC? I agree with you on the OC though. As far as your analogy of someone having a heart attack because they are yelled at, which is more likely to cause death? OC and tasers or verbal commands?

Taser's advertising them as non-lethal. 90% of the weapons we eventually get are from our military. Bean bag rounds, gas rounds, pepperball, tasers... Usually made for the USMC's Non-Lethal program first, then LE gets them through the LE/DOD Technology sharing program.

After all, why else do you think police departments were buying APCs for a dollar, and 20 M16s for another dollar.

There was a wonderful article that serves as a cautionary tale about using military tactics and weapons systems to achieve domestic peacekeeping objectives - if you could sit though the anti-LE bias. It explains the JT6 trickle-down technology concept alot.

[Charger]

Ok, being a certified OC instructor, I feel a need to jump in here before this gets ugly...

The ONLY deaths linked to OC, were from people who asphyxiated (sp?) themselves after being sprayed... the OC itself was NOT the cause of the death... OC is NON lethal, and there is NO proof otherwise. If you have questions, or a rebuttal, I can direct you to a PD Training Sergeant who is considered a national expert witness on the subject

//Rant off.

[N. A. Corbier]

Ok, being a certified OC instructor, I feel a need to jump in here before this gets ugly...

The ONLY deaths linked to OC, were from people who asphyxiated (sp?) themselves after being sprayed... the OC itself was NOT the cause of the death... OC is NON lethal, and there is NO proof otherwise. If you have questions, or a rebuttal, I can direct you to a PD Training Sergeant who is considered a national expert witness on the subject

//Rant off.

Of course. And every death from OC and Taser are excited delerium related. See the correlation? They're both non-lethal, as in "proability of device causing death is so low as to be same as background noise." The one death they "linked" to a taser, the official Cook County report reversed it.

This happens with every new device we get.

[Charger]

Exactly... Again, not the device's fault that people panic... Just wanted to clarify that...

[Mr. Security]

Ok, being a certified OC instructor, I feel a need to jump in here before this gets ugly...

The ONLY deaths linked to OC, were from people who asphyxiated (sp?) themselves after being sprayed... the OC itself was NOT the cause of the death... OC is NON lethal, and there is NO proof otherwise. If you have questions, or a rebuttal, I can direct you to a PD Training Sergeant who is considered a national expert witness on the subject

//Rant off.

When it comes to "expert witnesses" the prosecution usually has theirs and the defense has theirs. Typically, they contradict each other leaving the jury to draw their own conclusions. I would rather be directed to a credible scientific study that documents that OC is always non-lethal. If you spray someone with severe asthma the outcome may very well be lethal. Admittedly, the OC may not be the direct cause of death when dealing with a pre-existing condition, but it certainly is an aggravating factor. Much like the old adage that says: "Guns don't kill people; people kill people." This is a 'half-truth,' because guns make it EASIER to kill people. I am not entitled to expect that my viewpoint on this matter is the only acceptable one. Nevertheless, this is how I feel personally about it.

[Mr. Security]

Of course. And every death from OC and Taser are excited delerium related. See the correlation? They're both non-lethal, as in "proability of device causing death is so low as to be same as background noise." The one death they "linked" to a taser, the official Cook County report reversed it.

This happens with every new device we get.

I'm confused. Earlier you stated that: "Remember, you use OC, and OC has been linked to deaths, as well." Surely you didn't mean linked to death in the same way as background noise, did you?