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  • #31
    As a retired PO I have a license. The last one I obtained is good for five years. I certainly see no problem with anyone passing a background check and a recognized training course in carrying. Michigan now has the "shall issue" law but there are still areas, like Detroit, where the prosecutors' are stalling and delaying issuance.

    A few years back when the "may issue" law was around it was nearly impossible to get a "general" where you could carry the weapon loaded and on your person. The gun boards, comprised of a state police, sheriff, prosecutor and county clerk representatives, were "good ole boy" clubs and only let their buddies get permits.

    When I first got out of law enforcement I was disliked by the county sheriff and had one hell of a time getting mine. It was only after contacting political representatives about the travesty that I was able to get it issued.


    Rick

    Comment


    • #32
      Rick:
      Your former agency is the one who issues and maintains records on retired police officers. If there are any questions concerning whether or not retired LEOs may carry, I'd suggest whoever is dragging their feet should read 18USC926. Federal supremacy is the trump card.

      Office of the Law Revision Counsel, U.S. House of Representatives
      -CITE-
      18 USC Sec. 926C 01/03/05
      -EXPCITE-
      TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
      PART I - CRIMES
      CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS
      -HEAD-
      Sec. 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers
      -STATUTE-
      (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).
      (b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the
      laws of any State that - (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.
      (c) As used in this section, the term "qualified retired law enforcement officer" means an individual who - (1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental instability; (2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest; (3)(A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or (B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency; (4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency; (5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms; (6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
      (7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
      (d) The identification required by this subsection is -
      (1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently
      than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and
      qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or
      (2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and (B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a
      firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.
      (e) As used in this section, the term "firearm" does not include - (1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act); (2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and (3) a destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).
      -SOURCE-
      (Added Pub. L. 108-277, Sec. 3(a), July 22, 2004, 118 Stat. 866.)
      -REFTEXT-
      REFERENCES IN TEXT
      Section 5845 of the National Firearms Act, referred to in subsec. (e)(1), is classified to section 5845 of Title 26, Internal Revenue Code.

      Enjoy the day,
      Bill

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by warrior_oh58d
        You see here in the state of north carolina we have company or special police, which are card carrying law enforcement officers that work contracts just like a SO, his powers of arrest exist only where the contract is held and when he goes home at the end of the day he is no longer expected to enforce the law, however since he is a LEO he can carry concealed anywhere he wants to. I fortunately dont have to worry about getting a ccw (reference avatar) and here we also have open carry laws.
        Special Police Officers are an exception, and are not "public law enforcement officers," as they lose their powers after stepping onto public property.

        A "public law enforcement officer" is a law enforcement officer who works for the government of the United States or its political subdivisions. Special Police Officers in NC and other states do not work for a political subdivision of the United States, and are not "public law enforcement officers." This is why they are ineligible for HR 218 national carry.

        A good example of the difference in another state is Black Cesear. He works for a public university, and is an agent of the State of Texas. Put another peace officer next to him who works for a private school. They have identical powers (peace officer arrest authority on their geographical jurisdiction, the school), yet the private school peace officer cannot carry under HR 218.

        Tennessee granted Fedex the authority to create a state law enforcement agency, the Fedex Police. They work for Federal Express, and have jurisdiction 1 mile around any Fedex property (including Kinkos, which are owned by Fedex.) Does this make them agents of the state? Probably not.
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

        Comment


        • #34
          ok

          Thank you for the correction, i guess i need to pass that one around at the office though, every single one of the police officers that work for my company carry concealed (some are retired LE but most arent) but interestingly it hasn't been a problem for any of them.
          Be Professional And Courteous, But Never Forget The Next Person You Meet You May Have To Kill.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by warrior_oh58d
            Thank you for the correction, i guess i need to pass that one around at the office though, every single one of the police officers that work for my company carry concealed (some are retired LE but most arent) but interestingly it hasn't been a problem for any of them.
            Warrior_oh58d:
            18USC926C covers retired LEOs. 18USC96B covers current LEOs. You need it, I'll send it out.
            Enjoy the day,
            Bill

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Bill Warnock
              Warrior_oh58d:
              18USC926C covers retired LEOs. 18USC96B covers current LEOs. You need it, I'll send it out.
              Enjoy the day,
              Bill
              The FOP made sure that active duty and retired "special" or "private" LEOs, other than the Railway police, can't carry under HR218.

              Now, IN NC, active company police may be covered under statute which allows special LEOs to carry. Outside of NC? World of legal pain.
              Some Kind of Commando Leader

              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                The FOP made sure that active duty and retired "special" or "private" LEOs, other than the Railway police, can't carry under HR218.

                Now, IN NC, active company police may be covered under statute which allows special LEOs to carry. Outside of NC? World of legal pain.
                Nathan, that is a good question.
                I will ask a friend of mine in the US Attorney's office for his input and post it when and if I get it.
                Enjoy the day,
                Bill

                Comment


                • #38
                  CCW & Company Police in North Carolina...

                  In North Carolina Company Police are covered as far as concealed carry statewide by N.C.G.S. 14-269.

                  Most LEO's cut curtesy for other LEO's regardless of HR 218 but Private Police are not included in HR 218's language.

                  If you are a Private Police Officer and you carry concealed out of your State you are taking a chance.

                  I would say that if you are Private you would be better off to have a civilian CCW that covers you in the State you are visiting.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by talon
                    In North Carolina Company Police are covered as far as concealed carry statewide by N.C.G.S. 14-269.

                    Most LEO's cut curtesy for other LEO's regardless of HR 218 but Private Police are not included in HR 218's language.

                    If you are a Private Police Officer and you carry concealed out of your State you are taking a chance.

                    I would say that if you are Private you would be better off to have a civilian CCW that covers you in the State you are visiting.
                    That's what I figured. North Carolina considers them special law enforcement officers for the purposes of North Carolina law. Other states consider them citizens and may or may not extend them "out-of-state law enforcement officer" authority. Federal law does not.

                    Example, in Tennessee, they would not be able to continue fresh pursuit as they are not employees of another state's government or political subdivision, they would only be able to continue pursuit as private citizens.
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      HR 218,
                      WOW, sticky thing it is.

                      On a side note for all of you. HR 218 was written very vaguely. It was done so to cover ALL PD's and Sher Offr's in any state, in any town, no matter how big or how small. One of the biggest fights with this new law as I am sure alot of you prior service MP's know is who can and cannot carry. I myself have examined and paid an attorney to examine this law since it pertains directly to me and my power to carry or not to carry. Immediately after this law was signed in, every coast guard and service member MP began carrying off duty. Some installations even allowed there people to carry on the base if they lived off base or in base housing, (short lived untill some 3 star found out)... The police argued, YOUR NOT A COP AND THIS IS OUR LAW NOT YOURS!!! I was even challenged by a SDSO Deputy and told if I didnt remove my firearm and put it in the trunk he would haul me in. I even had creds that said CCW authorized, he told me it was his interrpretation that it meant on the base not outside it. I continued to carry and some cops were cool, some called the local bases and made a big deal of it. (damn hip packs give you away everytime.) It wasnt untill a cop in Virginia got cocky with a MPI Investigator that was driving across country on leave with a concealed weapon in his glove box. He had a radar detector and was stopped for having it up in his window. When the officer approached he stated, "Officer, I have a gun in my glove box, its loaded, but I am an MPI Police Officer and my creds are in the glove box with the weapon. The cop found out that MPI meant Military Police Investigator and snatched him out of the car. Now a **** storm occured, and now this law was truely examined. The police used the phrases to hide behind like, "Statutory powers" and others. The MP's used the phrases pointing out job duties. In the end it was ruled that MP's are a type of federal Police. Now the Police said, "They cant patrol outside there base." So the judge made an interesting example and asked the officer if he was allowed to go to the next town over and just start answering calls in there areas. At the time I was employed with DOD Police when we got the word that the MP won and that the Att General stated we are consider police officers and are now protected under hr 218. Now I am retired CID, and my creds are new, the have a BIG ugly red stamp that reflects the word RETIRED in big letters, but on the back in small letters states, " HR218 AUTHORIZED. This Agent meets all standards set fourth under HR218 and is authorized to carry the weapon of his / her choice."

                      Anyway, just food for thought guys. I am still waiting for a nationwide CCW for civilians. I think that would be a great law.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        wow

                        hey i really didn't expect to spawn off this whole big debate but i'm glad information is getting out there.... vertigo thanks for the info on MP's and HR218 that made my day to know i'm not breaking the law... haven't had a problem carrying yet and now i'm glad to know we're covered....
                        Be Professional And Courteous, But Never Forget The Next Person You Meet You May Have To Kill.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by warrior_oh58d
                          hey i really didn't expect to spawn off this whole big debate but i'm glad information is getting out there.... vertigo thanks for the info on MP's and HR218 that made my day to know i'm not breaking the law... haven't had a problem carrying yet and now i'm glad to know we're covered....
                          warrior_oh58d:
                          According to the info I got, the stamp is to read: 18USC 962B or 962C approved and the approving authority.
                          Office of the Law Revision Counsel, U.S. House of Representatives
                          -CITE-
                          18 USC Sec. 926B 01/03/05
                          -EXPCITE-
                          TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
                          PART I - CRIMES
                          CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS
                          -HEAD-
                          Sec. 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers
                          -STATUTE-
                          (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).
                          (b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that -
                          (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
                          (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.
                          (c) As used in this section, the term "qualified law enforcement officer" means an employee of a governmental agency who - (1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest; (2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm; (3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency; (4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm; (5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and (6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
                          (d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.
                          (e) As used in this section, the term "firearm" does not include -
                          (1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act); (2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and (3) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).
                          -SOURCE-
                          Added Pub. L. 108-277, Sec. 2(a), July 22, 2004, 118 Stat. 865.)
                          -REFTEXT-
                          REFERENCES IN TEXT
                          Section 5845 of the National Firearms Act, referred to in subsec. (e)(1), is classified to section 5845 of Title 26, Internal Revenue Code.

                          Enjoy the day,
                          Bill

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by warrior_oh58d
                            hey i really didn't expect to spawn off this whole big debate but i'm glad information is getting out there.... vertigo thanks for the info on MP's and HR218 that made my day to know i'm not breaking the law... haven't had a problem carrying yet and now i'm glad to know we're covered....
                            Yeah, thats why we are all here...if one of us doesn't know the answer chances are someone does or can find out.

                            HR 218 isn't a blanket carry permit...there are many of the same restrictions that apply to civilian permits.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by talon
                              Yeah, thats why we are all here...if one of us doesn't know the answer chances are someone does or can find out.

                              HR 218 isn't a blanket carry permit...there are many of the same restrictions that apply to civilian permits.
                              True but its written to vaguely to prosecute those holding a job with the title Police Officer

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Off Duty Carry

                                I have a choice between my Glock 17 and my Kimber CDP. I usually carry

                                the Kimber though.
                                "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
                                - Thomas Jefferson

                                “Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.”
                                — Vince Lombardi

                                "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

                                IX. Strive to attain professional competence.

                                Comment

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