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  • Off Duty Carry?

    Being one who firmly believes in protecting myself and those I love, (as there is no local police department, and the troopers take forever to show up) I have always been one who carries a tac light, asp palm defender, and pocket knife on me at all times.

    However shopping at the local grocery store a few days ago for a turkey, I ended up running into a mental patient who I've had problems with at the hospital where I work. Apparently she recognised me, and gave me a very dirty, slightly crazed look, as she was probably recalling when I had to wrestle with her and apply 4 point restriants by doctors orders to protect her and others from herself. Needless to say, the rest of that shopping trip I was looking over my shoulder, and ready for just about anything.

    It was after this trip that I realised that many security jobs which involve direct contact with the less desirable members of society provide for this danger of security personnel being assualted off duty just as police work would. Either out of anger or revenge for police charges filed as a result of the security officers actions, or as a result of a situation like mine. However, as far as I am aware, there is nothing in place for security oficers that is even remotely similiar to HR218 which allows police officers to carry off duty for personal protection.

    While I'm not suggesting the off duty arming of all security officers, I am curious if anyone else is aware of any security companies which do anything to protect their officers from those they encounter on duty, while they are off duty. It only makes sense that an officer capable of open carry on the job is just as capable of concealed while off duty, and the same with issuing officers who carry OC daily with an off duty pocket can.

    And for those of you who might call me parranoid, I've had my house egged the night after a underage drinking bust where I worked at the campground, my girlfriends tires slashed, and I've been tailed from work to the area of my home at least one time that I am aware of (and shook the tail a few blocks away).
    Last edited by cnick001; 11-24-2006, 02:46 AM.

  • #2
    Well, I am a big supporter of issuing CCW's to Off Duty Security Officers that have had the firearms permits for 3 years or more with ZERO incidents. Local police dont agree, but when they dont understand what guards go through. This will eventually happen one day i give it 5 to 10 years. Or company has several Prior cops, now security guards that got there CCW and are "on call" 24 hours a day 7 days per week, so the SO cant do anything about them carrying off duty.

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    • #3
      I'm sure the liability for a company dealing with anything off duty must be great, and the 3 year minimum of clean carry history is certainly good for reducing such.

      I just wonder where the greater liability lies,
      -being responsible for the arming of your officers, and what they might do off duty with such,
      or
      -being responsible for putting officers in workplace situations which may lead to dangerous off duty encounters without adequately preparing them to protect themselves.

      Comment


      • #4
        This issue varies in each region. A concealed handgun permit is very easy to obtain in some places, so it would be no major problem for an off duty security guard to carry as long as he is no longer in uniform. In other places where most of the general public does not have such a permit, however, criticism of the performance of an armed guard in order to obtain a concealed permit sounds like a good idea.

        One other issue I am concerned about that also varies in each state is the law regarding where we can carry our weapons while on duty. I find it infuriating to have to remove a duty weapon while entering a convenience store where numerous members of the general public who have concealed permits and less training with the weapon may go armed but I may not.
        "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by cnick001
          Being one who firmly believes in protecting myself and those I love, (as there is no local police department, and the troopers take forever to show up) I have always been one who carries a tac light, asp palm defender, and pocket knife on me at all times.

          However shopping at the local grocery store a few days ago for a turkey, I ended up running into a mental patient who I've had problems with at the hospital where I work. Apparently she recognised me, and gave me a very dirty, slightly crazed look, as she was probably recalling when I had to wrestle with her and apply 4 point restriants by doctors orders to protect her and others from herself. Needless to say, the rest of that shopping trip I was looking over my shoulder, and ready for just about anything.

          It was after this trip that I realised that many security jobs which involve direct contact with the less desirable members of society provide for this danger of security personnel being assualted off duty just as police work would. Either out of anger or revenge for police charges filed as a result of the security officers actions, or as a result of a situation like mine. However, as far as I am aware, there is nothing in place for security oficers that is even remotely similiar to HR218 which allows police officers to carry off duty for personal protection.

          While I'm not suggesting the off duty arming of all security officers, I am curious if anyone else is aware of any security companies which do anything to protect their officers from those they encounter on duty, while they are off duty. It only makes sense that an officer capable of open carry on the job is just as capable of concealed while off duty, and the same with issuing officers who carry OC daily with an off duty pocket can.

          And for those of you who might call me parranoid, I've had my house egged the night after a underage drinking bust where I worked at the campground, my girlfriends tires slashed, and I've been tailed from work to the area of my home at least one time that I am aware of (and shook the tail a few blocks away).
          Your not paranoid, you have just found out that you are ticking off violators by doing your job, and living in the same town that you work provides you with this difficulty. It really isnt fair!

          I allow all of my staff to take their duty gear with them as they travel home out of town. I try not to hire people in the same area we work for those reasons.

          Check your local sheriff's department for CCW permits.
          Deputy Sheriff

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          • #6
            Off duty I carry at least my side arm (CCW permit), usually 1 spare mag, a light, and folder knife.

            I too have come face to face with people I have had an encounter with on duty but mothing SO FAR has happened.

            The thing most LEs don't understand is a lot of times we deal with the same people they do. The Druggies, alchoholics, theives, and general all around toads that they take to jail also come around us. I am just glad I have a good working relationship with the local LEOs.

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't mean to over simplify matters, but wisdom is a powerful tool in protecting oneself. For example, if you feel in danger shopping at a given location, why not shop elsewhere or at a different time if a mental patient is causing alarm bells to go off? Just a thought.
              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mr. Security
                I don't mean to over simplify matters, but wisdom is a powerful tool in protecting oneself. For example, if you feel in danger shopping at a given location, why not shop elsewhere or at a different time if a mental patient is causing alarm bells to go off? Just a thought.
                Because you don't know when you're going to see that mental patient/ex-prisoner/guy you put in jail/wife's crazy ex-husband/YOUR crazy ex-wife ect ect. No one intentionally goes someplace ,with or without their families, if they know it's dangerous most of the time.

                I almost always carry off duty (a perk of being a campus cop, I don't need a CCW ).Only times I don't carry is when my kids and wife aren't with me. I know thats reckless, but if it's just me at risk I might chance it and be lazy.

                I've seen people I've arrested, or ex students who I had a hand in getting expelled (well, they got themsleves expelled, I just wrote the report that went to the Dean of Students) at the state fair, at the movies, at Wal-Mart, at the Grocery Store. And over the last 5 years we've lived in 3 different places around Dallas so I'm not talking about going to the same places all the time. Crooks are mobil too lol.

                Heck, when I was a Detention Officer at the County Jail, I ran into a Trustee that I'd gone to High School with in the Jail. It's not like I could say "what have you been doing since high school", because it was obvious lol.

                The (almost) FUNNY thing is that, 3 months later I went over to my moms house when I got off, and the SAME Trustee/ex-high school buddy was in my mother's house. His uncle gave him a job assiting him in his Heating and Air business. He was holding a piece of my mothers Air Conditioning unti when I walked in lol.

                I told my mom. She didn't blink, just locked her jewlry box and put her .38 revolver in her purse LOL.

                You just never know......
                ~Black Caesar~
                Corbier's Commandos

                " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

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                • #9
                  I guess working in hotels has it's advantages in this case. I rarely see anyone I've had to throw out for example since they usually don't live in the city,
                  I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                  Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mr. Security
                    I don't mean to over simplify matters, but wisdom is a powerful tool in protecting oneself. For example, if you feel in danger shopping at a given location, why not shop elsewhere or at a different time if a mental patient is causing alarm bells to go off? Just a thought.
                    Why dont Cops? The thing is that the Police get to carry so that they can protect themselves from this. Well if we are doing the same job "in a sense" why cant we carry to protect ourselves.

                    The answer is because you have "wanna-be" cops (Security Guards) who would abuse this off duty carry, trying to arrest people, making some small crime into a MAJOR incident.

                    That last bit ponders another question, Off Duty Police Officer from Coronado tried to pull over someone he thought was swerving. An altercation occured between him and the drive (A San Diego Charger) and shots were fired! So cops can get involved in stupid things just like Wanna-Be's. So where is the answer.

                    Its in you, get a petition together, go to walmart and have people walking out sign it allowing a licensed trainned Security Officer with a firearms permit be authorized to carry "off duty" for protection purposes. If it gets on the ballots you may just win that right. As for me, I have retirement creds so under hr218 I can carry. I wish you guys luck, and understand this, it is VERY possible to pass this.

                    How possible, well hmmmm I will tell you a story. In a small city in the US a local Sheriff died one week before the election. NO ONE runs against him because he is that good. The plan was to have him re-elected to office and then the under-sheriff would take over. A security guard and his friends heard about this and decided to spice it up. The guard and 20 friends did a write in vote for him (the guard) and the day of the election the under-sheriff found out the great news. HE HAD A NEW BOSS!!! The city was outraged and so was the Sheriff's. BUT, because of voting laws, by a unanimous decision, he won fair and square. Too bad so sad. Lawsuits were filed, and a meeting between the new sheriff and freshly resigned under-sheriff took place, where the guard agreed to resign with stipulations that he became a sheriff as well as some of his friends, and was given a contract employment and choice of assignments.

                    Now this happened a long time ago, but it goes to show that anything is possible. Get a plan together, write it out and let the voters vote.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You never will know when someone will pop up in your life. In the current issue of STUFF magazine, there's an article on "donks," a type of modified Caprice. There's also a very large black man standing next to a large 1996 Caprice Classic with huge rims and painted black.

                      I know of this man, we had to throw him off the property and it ended up with drawn guns and him getting arrested by the single Tampa Police Officer who was chatting with us at the time. We were standing there BSing, and this idiot comes walking over talking about how he's gonna kick all our asses cause we towed his car.

                      He did not really understand that "the guy on the left is a police officer, and I am probably going to jail for threatening all of them." So, after we had a slight conversation as to why he's going to jail, he ran once it dawned on him that the guy on the left had different patches. To his car. Which, like so many others, he previously said he had a gun in and was going to shoot us with it. Good times were had by all, but him.

                      Oh, and we towed his car again.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The difference between a public law enforcement officer and a security officer is the fact the public law enforcement is sworn to enforce the law 24 hours-a-day, 7-days-a-week. Armed or not, when the security officer finishes his tour of duty and leaves the protected space or area, he is an ordinary citizen, nothing more nothing less. The SO is paid by the company for whom he is employed. The LEO is paid out of taxpayers dollars for the specific duty of protecting the public interests.
                        Police officers have been disciplined or fired for not doing their duty when a crime is committed in their presence or rendering assistance to uniformed LEOs when the need arises.
                        Enjoy the day,
                        Bill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Black Caesar
                          Because you don't know when you're going to see that mental patient/ex-prisoner/guy you put in jail/wife's crazy ex-husband/YOUR crazy ex-wife ect ect. No one intentionally goes someplace ,with or without their families, if they know it's dangerous most of the time......................
                          The fact that he remained in the store with full knowledge of this individual's background raises a red flag in my mind if your underlined comment is completely accurate. I do, however, agree that it is impossible to avoid all areas where such an encounter may occur.
                          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bill Warnock
                            Police officers have been disciplined or fired for not doing their duty when a crime is committed in their presence or rendering assistance to uniformed LEOs when the need arises.
                            Enjoy the day,
                            Bill
                            And I'm sure some S/O's have lost their jobs for intervening in some off duty situations that legally warrant a response from a sworn LEO. There's the rub in some cases... I live in Vermont, which Thank God hasn't been legislated into gun control purgatory; As such, I am free to carry concealed or otherwise my sidearm of choice (Ruger P95DC w/ 147 gr. Speer Gold Dot HP's)... When I'm not on duty at my job site, obviously, it stays locked up in my POV; But, it always stays in the back of my mind that if I'm either en route to or from work and stumble across a (worst case) situation gone bad... Even though I'm off duty and on my way home at this particular time, I'm still in uniform, and armed with your average Citizens Arrest powers and VT's right to CCW... I know, I really should ask my Supervisor about this ... But I would consider myself a responsible citizen first and foremost, and a Security Officer second...

                            I'm pretty certain my boss would be non-plussed to see a photo of me in company uniform with a weapon drawn on someone when my company has no armed accounts whatsoever...
                            Last edited by flashlightcop509; 11-26-2006, 12:06 AM.
                            “Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left”
                            "I swear to God, I'm going to pistol whip the next guy that says 'Shenanigans' "... Capt. O'Hagan, "Super Troopers"

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                            • #15
                              The "best solution" to that problem I've heard, usually, is that "guards shall spend the 15 minutes they arrive prior to shift putting their uniform shirt on at the site. Guards shall take their uniform shirt off at the completion of shift, on site, before travelling."
                              Some Kind of Commando Leader

                              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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