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  • #31
    Some OC will set you on fire. One agency put out a list. I suggest, that if you use tasers at your company, you make everybody carry either the same brand - or select from a list of brands you've tested.

    Its not so bad when you OC someone and the police taser them and they catch on fire (liabliity wise, its not their day regardless of who's OC it is), because your agency didn't torch them.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #32
      heres a list put out by CRT less lethal showing which sprays are taser compatible and which arent.

      Brand Type Flammable?

      AERKO Punch II both "flammable" and "nonflammable" STREAM YES
      AERKO FREEZE +P, OC-CS STREAM NO
      Body Guard LE10* (def tech) STREAM YES
      Body Guard LE10* (def tech) FOG NO
      Body Guard LE10* (def tech) FOAM NO**
      Counter Assault OC-10* FOG NO
      CTSMk4 FOG NO**
      CTSMk9 FOG NO
      Def Tech Pepper Foam 10% * FOAM NO
      Def Tech First Defense MK-IV* STREAM NO
      Def Tech First Defense X2 STREAM NO
      Def Tech 5.5 Pepper mace* STREAM YES
      Def Tech Pepper 10* STREAM NO
      Def Tech First Defense MK-9 FOG NO
      FOX spray* STREAM NO
      FOX spray FOG NO
      Guardian FOG YES
      Guardian STREAM NO
      Mace Sec. Int'l TAKEDOWN GEL NO
      Pepperball CONE NO
      Pepperball STREAM NO
      TDS Tactical Defense Spray FOG YES
      TDS Tactical Defense Spray STREAM YES
      SABRE CS/Red pepper STREAM YES
      SABRE RED FOAM NO
      SABRE Red- H2O STREAM NO
      SABRE Red- H2O FOAM NO
      SABRE Red- H20 FOG NO
      Zarc Capstun FOG YES

      * tested on two separate events with different lot numbers with the same results
      Some have more than one lot number tested with the same results

      ** Did not ignite, but raised concerns with high heat generation or hot vapor production.
      Last edited by bigdog; 11-18-2006, 04:47 AM.
      "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

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      • #33
        At the Mall I work at, we are not authorized to use Spray, Batons, cuffs, or Tasers. The GM almost had a heart attck when he saw my duty belt (just for carrying all the phones/radio's, authorized by my Super.)

        Usually there is only one Officer most nights, with a second or third covering the "high traffic" times.
        "What if this is as good as it gets?" ~ Melvin Udall

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        • #34
          [QUOTE=VertigoODO]
          Originally posted by Mall Director
          It is safe to use indoors. We use Foam, so there are no floating particals. In the event of a fogger, we absolutely try to refrain from using indoors, but if it was to ever get bad enough, I think the justification is there./QUOTE]

          Ya Foam for us is a NO-GO because the officers have Tasers, IE, foam is flamable, we'd be lighting people on fire everyday, not that some people dont need to get burned, but it might be viewed as excessive. LOL
          You can use foam OC, by Defensive Tehnologies/First Defense. It is EDW safe. Is is nitrogen propelled ad comprised only of OC and H2O.

          Big rule of thumb when you are looking into purchasing OC, and what is EDW safe, is that any brand that is a combination comprised, such as CN/CS and OC is not EDW safe. CN and CS are flammable. Also, some Fogger units are flammable.
          Deputy Sheriff

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          • #35
            Originally posted by bigdog
            heres a list put out by CRT less lethal showing which sprays are taser compatible and which arent.

            Brand Type Flammable?

            AERKO Punch II both "flammable" and "nonflammable" STREAM YES
            AERKO FREEZE +P, OC-CS STREAM NO
            Body Guard LE10* (def tech) STREAM YES
            Body Guard LE10* (def tech) FOG NO
            Body Guard LE10* (def tech) FOAM NO**
            Counter Assault OC-10* FOG NO
            CTSMk4 FOG NO**
            CTSMk9 FOG NO
            Def Tech Pepper Foam 10% * FOAM NO
            Def Tech First Defense MK-IV* STREAM NO
            Def Tech First Defense X2 STREAM NO
            Def Tech 5.5 Pepper mace* STREAM YES
            Def Tech Pepper 10* STREAM NO
            Def Tech First Defense MK-9 FOG NO
            FOX spray* STREAM NO
            FOX spray FOG NO
            Guardian FOG YES
            Guardian STREAM NO
            Mace Sec. Int'l TAKEDOWN GEL NO
            Pepperball CONE NO
            Pepperball STREAM NO
            TDS Tactical Defense Spray FOG YES
            TDS Tactical Defense Spray STREAM YES
            SABRE CS/Red pepper STREAM YES
            SABRE RED FOAM NO
            SABRE Red- H2O STREAM NO
            SABRE Red- H2O FOAM NO
            SABRE Red- H20 FOG NO
            Zarc Capstun FOG YES

            * tested on two separate events with different lot numbers with the same results
            Some have more than one lot number tested with the same results

            ** Did not ignite, but raised concerns with high heat generation or hot vapor production.
            Some real quick corrections to add here:
            Body Guard LE10* (def tech) STREAM YES-->No (nitrogen propelled, H2O/OC)
            Def Tech 5.5 Pepper mace* STREAM YES-->No (nitrogen propelled, H20/OC)
            Def Tech First Defense MK-9 FOG NO-->Yes (Defensive labatories states this is flammable). I personnaly tested this brand and unit, and they are right, it is flammable. The fogger Units by Federal Labatories are flammable and they stated "they are working on it". (I will see if I can download the video to this )
            Deputy Sheriff

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            • #36
              Mall Director are you 100% that 5.5 pepper mace is taser safe. the reason I ask Is i used to carry pepper mace and was told by a fellow officer who used it that it was flammable when used with a taser.
              "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

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              • #37
                The brand I carry, in addition to my CCW pistol, is Freeze +P CS/OC.
                It's nonflamable and I know it works after several years of working at the State prison. I've seen inmates hit with it and I've been hit with it and I trust it. I buy it from a police supply store in Baton Rouge and it's worth every dime.
                Hospital Security Officer

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by EMTGuard
                  The brand I carry, in addition to my CCW pistol, is Freeze +P CS/OC.
                  It's nonflamable and I know it works after several years of working at the State prison. I've seen inmates hit with it and I've been hit with it and I trust it. I buy it from a police supply store in Baton Rouge and it's worth every dime.
                  Are you sure Freeze +P is non-flamable when exposed to a taser arc? Its not "can you set it on fire," its "can a spark detonate it."
                  Some Kind of Commando Leader

                  "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                    Are you sure Freeze +P is non-flamable when exposed to a taser arc? Its not "can you set it on fire," its "can a spark detonate it."
                    No, I'm not sure. Considering I don't carry a taser, the next level up if the Freeze fails to discourage someone is to pull my trusty Bersa .380 or my Ruger P-89 9mm and fire 2 shots center mass.
                    Hospital Security Officer

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                    • #40
                      Use of Force for fights

                      When all else fails, consult your "Use of Force Continuum":

                      -Presence
                      -Voice (Verbal Commands)
                      -Soft Hands (Shoving them apart)
                      -Hard Hands (Throwing strikes or grapple holds)
                      -OC Spray
                      -Baton or other non-lethal contact device (or taser)
                      -Lethal force of weapons or lethal hard hands

                      You can jump to any one of these levels depending on the situation at hand (consult your training and experience of use of force), and handcuffs or restraints for BOTH subjects is STRONGLY suggested after you break the fight up.

                      It should probably be wise to take a martial arts course intended for public safety personnel, like Jiu-Jitsu or Krav Maga (I am trained in both, and teach hand-to-hand combat for my public safety dept.) Go in alone ONLY IF YOU HAVE TO and it's probably wise to get police involved either before or after. If you are working sporting events, most likely there is an LEO within shouting distance to assist you. There is always power in numbers (the presence of officers. There are actually cases on record of excessive use of force based on the number of officers present to handle situations).

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by EMTGuard
                        No, I'm not sure. Considering I don't carry a taser, the next level up if the Freeze fails to discourage someone is to pull my trusty Bersa .380 or my Ruger P-89 9mm and fire 2 shots center mass.
                        Might want to do four if you're going to use the .380

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ff000525
                          Might want to do four if you're going to use the .380
                          Not a problem. Drill is fire 2, quickly reacess the threat, and if necessary, followup with headshots. That's how I train on the range. Commonly known as the Mozambique Drill - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambique_Drill .
                          Hospital Security Officer

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by bigdog
                            Mall Director are you 100% that 5.5 pepper mace is taser safe. the reason I ask Is i used to carry pepper mace and was told by a fellow officer who used it that it was flammable when used with a taser.
                            By Def-Tec.. YES, and if you want any support to my claim.. I will send you a WMF, in which we tried to use a torch to light the can up on fire as we sprayed.. its a no-go.. Only fogger units are flammible, not spray or foam!
                            Deputy Sheriff

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by EMTGuard
                              Not a problem. Drill is fire 2, quickly reacess the threat, and if necessary, followup with headshots. That's how I train on the range. Commonly known as the Mozambique Drill - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambique_Drill .
                              That sounds like the Bailer drill, which I am of course guessing on how its spelled. Two to center mass, one to the head.
                              Some Kind of Commando Leader

                              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                                That sounds like the Bailer drill, which I am of course guessing on how its spelled. Two to center mass, one to the head.
                                It's been known by different names (usually by whoever is teaching it ) Me I'm of the school shoot til he's down or the threat has ended.

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