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  • #16
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    On the other end of the spectrum, you have the Schmitt guard with a badge and patches that say "Schmitt Security Police" who are so untrained they refuse to do anything.

    Schmitt and some of their personal are currently in hot water with the DRL. They have all sorts of disciplinary action against them. Just another reason they are being forced to change their company name as mentioned in another thread.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

    ~~George Orwell.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Special Investigator
      Schmitt and some of their personal are currently in hot water with the DRL. They have all sorts of disciplinary action against them. Just another reason they are being forced to change their company name as mentioned in another thread.
      Interesting. Has it made the DRL monthly report yet?
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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      • #18
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
        So would quite a few. The problem, of course, is that the national companies believe there should be no "mandated training," because "a security guard at a construction site doesn't need to be trained, really." (USA Today has done several articles on this already.)
        I know.. Its a vicious cycle isnt it? My personal thoughts are regardless of the job requirements, if we prepare everyone with a higher level of the basics, then we set ourselves for success. Never know when that dead job may get interesting at some time. LOL.

        I feel that clients that want a warm body to just watch something, need to hire "Observers" not security. We have a stronger purpose!
        Deputy Sheriff

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        • #19
          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
          Interesting. Has it made the DRL monthly report yet?

          I'm not sure. Usally nothing is posted at the DRL website until the matter is resolved.
          "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

          ~~George Orwell.

          Comment


          • #20
            I can't believe that some of you don't actually have to be licenced in the U.S.

            Over here in the state of New South Wales (N.S.W.) it is extremely hard to become a security officer. Here is what happens:-

            1.) You have to get a pre-criminal history check. Any criminal convictions at all no mater how small (except minor speeding offences) and this rules you out. If you have a clean criminal record you then receive permission to attend a security course to obtain the relevant qualifications.

            2.) If you pass No.1, you're then allowed to complete a N.S.W. Security Industry Registry approaved course to gain a N.S.W. Security Licence in the following areas:-
            *1A:- Static Guard/Night Patrolman
            *1B:- Body Guard
            *1C:- Crowd Control
            *1D:- Dog Handler
            *1E:- Control Room
            *1F:- Armed Officer
            *1G:- Loss Prevention
            *1S:- Special Constable

            3.) If you complete your applicable course and pass, you then apply to the N.S.W. Security Industry Registry (S.I.R.) for the relevant licence. You must have a current senior first-aid certificate. You can be licenced in all areas of those courses above, or just one, but you can only work in those areas you're licenced to work in. The course/s depending on which you take can range from a few days to several weeks. Most people here do the classes 1A and 1C. A 1yr licence costs $110, and a 5yr licence costs $440.

            4.) Another criminal history check is then completed on you by N.S.W. S.I.R. and you then attend the local Police station for your fingerprint assesment, to make sure you're not wanted etc and these are kept on Police file.

            5.) Once that's gone through, you then attend the local Dpt of Transport and have a photographic licence taken which must be worn on you and clearly on display whilst you are working, or it's a $4000 fine.

            6.) Once you have a security licence you are authorised by the Commissioner of N.S.W. Police to posses handcuffs and batons, but to use them you must once again complete a Commissioner of N.S.W. Police approaved handcuff and baton course.


            So as you can see, we have some if not the hardest rules and regulations in the world to obtain and hold a security licence.
            A well trained dog is worth 10 men!

            I can recall my dog, but I can never recall a fired bullet!

            Would you prefer me to use the dog, the Glock, the baton or the O.C. spray? It's your health insurance so you decide. Alternatively there is always the handcuffs, followed by the Police with the court house preceeding rapidly after. Now which service would you like me to utilise

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            • #21
              I'm quite impressed by the process that Australia has! Is the process that

              stringent in all of the states? How hard is it to become a Police Officer?

              If we in the United States had even half of that process, I think the Security

              profession would not be as frowned upon by the general public as it is now.
              "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
              - Thomas Jefferson

              “Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.”
              — Vince Lombardi

              "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

              IX. Strive to attain professional competence.

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              • #22
                Im in nsw and I have a 1abc and a 2b licence. They are pretty strict in Australia in regards to security licenses, we have licensing sargents that regularly come and check our license is current and displayed how it should be. We also have to have rsa (responsible service of alcohol)training to be able to work at pubs,races ect anywhere aclohol is served.Im not sure about other places in NSW but where im from the police are really friendly and appreciate what we do.Nsw police is the hardest to get into, they are very strict on the physical side of things and really focus on the police officers being able to chase someone down and being able to pull yourself over fences ect. the police fitness tests are worse than the army's tests and then you have to do the apptitude testing as well as medicals.I have to reapply for the nsw police because I applied to do the course by correspondence but was offered to go to the uni at Goulburn for six months instead of the course I wanted, the course they wanted me to do would mean that I would be in the force in six months and the one I wanted to do would be atleast 18 months before I was a cop.
                Last edited by ozsecuritychic; 07-22-2007, 01:14 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by FederalSecurity View Post
                  I'm quite impressed by the process that Australia has! Is the process that

                  stringent in all of the states? How hard is it to become a Police Officer?

                  If we in the United States had even half of that process, I think the Security

                  profession would not be as frowned upon by the general public as it is now.
                  Thats one of the reasons that I didnt just go after the maggots that killed my dog, I went to a real lot of trouble to get my security license and to do the other training that I have done to throw it all away and give the people what they want, which is for me to not be working as a security guard so they can have their little dealing buisiness back. We also have to have written character references when applying for our licenses.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by FederalSecurity View Post
                    I'm quite impressed by the process that Australia has! Is the process that

                    stringent in all of the states? How hard is it to become a Police Officer?

                    If we in the United States had even half of that process, I think the Security

                    profession would not be as frowned upon by the general public as it is now.

                    No just NSW unfortunately. Victoria isn't to bad and has about 75% of NSW. QLD on the other hand tho is lifting its game as its been sadly lacking for years. Very soon Q.L.D. laws will come into the same effect as NSW laws and rules for security. QLD is terribly shonky and has been for decades. The biggest reason for QLD being so bad is it's "policed" by the QLD Department of Fair Trading, not the Police as NSW is.

                    If anyone wants to see more about how stringent this are here for us in NSW, take a look at the NSW Police website and this will explain more in detail http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/about_u...curity_licence


                    It's about to get even tougher in NSW too, with even harder legislation being introduced next year. All security officers in NSW will be placed on a "probationary" security licence and within 12mths EVERYONE must be workplaced assessed for compentency.

                    It's basically a university degree now to become a NSW Police Officer, and takes about 2yrs.
                    A well trained dog is worth 10 men!

                    I can recall my dog, but I can never recall a fired bullet!

                    Would you prefer me to use the dog, the Glock, the baton or the O.C. spray? It's your health insurance so you decide. Alternatively there is always the handcuffs, followed by the Police with the court house preceeding rapidly after. Now which service would you like me to utilise

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mr. Security View Post
                      Any other activity that requires a license bestows privileges to the holder not exercisable by a private citizen. For example: driving, scuba, fishing, flying, etc. What privilege do I have as an O&R security guard that a private citizen doesn't, other than working in security? (Big deal) My hourly rate didn't increase. In fact, the only thing that increased was the state's licensing revenue.

                      My point is this: O&R security guards shouldn't be required to have a license. We do not detain, make arrests, or carry weapons. I believe that a license should be reserved for guards who actually do the aforementioned things.
                      What do you think?
                      Devil's Advocate - Truck Drivers need a special license and are also below the extra privlege scale!

                      Later this year, all Ontario Security Staff (InHouse & Contract) will require a license. I would prefer a class system to show a difference between O&R and others, but that is not happening. There will be marks made on the lic. if you have qualified for handcuffs / batons / firearms. Annual retraining will be neccessary for them as well.

                      I liked the idea shown by one poster that a 5 year license is actually less than 5 one year licenses. Our drivers license for 2 years is the same cost as 2 one year renewals, so it could be just about the money.....
                      Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted.
                      Groucho Marx

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The problem with exempting O&R guards from licensing is this: in many states/provinces, the non-O&R activities (such as citizen's arrest, etc..) are not specific powers given to security guards but rather powers provided to all private citizens. Therefore, it becomes legally questionable to regulate the activities.

                        While we might want to have different "levels", there's nothing preventing a client from hiring the lowest level regardless of the situation.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by bigshotceo View Post
                          While we might want to have different "levels", there's nothing preventing a client from hiring the lowest level regardless of the situation.
                          And that seems to be a block in our path towards some uniformity of acceptable base standards within our industry.
                          Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted.
                          Groucho Marx

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                          • #28
                            Money. Money. Money.

                            Those are the three reasons for the current level of training required to be certified in Oregon. They are also the reasons for said training to be held in the minimalistic arena. Companies will argue they can't afford to pay more than what they do. Money is also the revenue generating source for the state, granted it's not much-but it does pay for the staff to be self sufficient.

                            I strongly feel that if the state wants to actually improve the standards of the security officers they would actively pursue that avenue. I emailed the DPSST/Private Security Div. Director and asked about more training, specifically for the Taser. Here's what I got back;

                            DPSST's training programs for private security personnel are
                            designed to provide applicants with basic and necessary skills
                            prior to
                            beginning work as either an unarmed or armed security officer. We do not
                            at this time provide training programs specific to the weapons you
                            mentioned. We would typically refer constituents back to the
                            manufacturer or to the NRA for training opportunities.
                            If there was a real and tangible effort to improve the training of security officers in my state, or others, I feel there would be Basic, Intermediate, and Advanced levels of certification. For instance, in my state a Police Officer goes to the Academy (DPSST) and upon graduation he/she has earned their Basic Certification. They have the ability to achieve a higher level of certification (Intermediate and Advanced) via more training. Granted their dept. typically pays for it, as it will obviously improve said dept. But, on the Security side of the same state agency, DPSST, there is none. Training is within reach, but no one has the money to pay for it, we don't have a dept with a big training budget. Not to bash on the state to much, they do offer up some free training to us, it's just way too sporactic.

                            As an indsutry we have handicapped ourselves in this arena. Most companies will step over their own mother to under bid a competitor. By doing this said companies are shoot themselves in the foot as they will be making less and less per account and will defintely have zero money to improve their Officers and corporate image.
                            ~Super Ninja Sniper~
                            Corbier's Commandos

                            Nemo me impune lacessit

                            Grammical and Spelling errors may occur form time to time. Yoov bin worned

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                            • #29
                              I am absolutely in favor of state licensing and at least a minimal level of mandated training. Illinois requires 20 hours training, and fingerprint processing before they will issue the Permanent Employee Registration Card (PERC). It's another 20 hours and range qualification for a Firearms Authorization Card (FAC). Even though this is more training than many states require, I think it is minimal, even for O&R duties.

                              I do not believe there should be a national license or national certification for private security persons. That right should remain with the states. However, I do believe there should be some minimal accepted standards for states to base reciprocity agreements, such as we have with driver's licenses and CCW permits, and certain other professional licenses.

                              As far as additional training requirements, can you really ever have enough training? In this cut-throat bottom-bid industry, training is always lacking. GOOD training is even harder to come by. Unless you're working on a government contract or in a government-regulated industry, it will be very hard to find a client willing to pay for additional training. Many of them feel that it is the security contractor's responsibility to provide training out of their budget. A client knows if they require the contractor to provide any type of training, they will have to pay for it. It's much more cost-effective to forgo additional training and blame any problems on the security contractor's lack of training and poor hiring practices.

                              After all, isn't that why they hire contract security? To minimize their liability and have a scapegoat they can dump the blame on?



                              -- Frank
                              Tommy Boy: "I can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking my head up a bull's a$&, but I'd rather take a butcher's word for it. "

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by FederalSecurity View Post
                                I'm quite impressed by the process that Australia has! Is the process that

                                stringent in all of the states? How hard is it to become a Police Officer?

                                If we in the United States had even half of that process, I think the Security

                                profession would not be as frowned upon by the general public as it is now.
                                I was of the belief that Victoria was pretty stringent also after the Victorian Security Officer requirements were redefined (following incidents in nightclubs 3 or so years ago), requiring all operatives to obtain a Certificate III in Security Operations PRS 301103 (including R.S.A. & Workplace First Aid Level II)

                                Due to the altering industry standards I ended up completing the above certificate directly after I finished the older Certficate II, so I spent around 120 hours all up, providing me with accreditiation for work as either a Crowd Controller or Security Guard/Officer

                                Our licensing period is only for 3 years and is controlled by the Licensing Services Division of the Victoria Police (or LSD), which envolves 2 character references (from professionals Doctor's etc.) and a Police records check, LSD also defines the period of competancy duration...

                                I should also point out at this juncture, that the RTO's (licenced by LSD) are also empowered somewhat to help remove undesirable employees through written disapproval recommendations for licensing made to LSD.

                                Due to our current Police Commissioner's vision for the future of the Police in Victoria, some physical requirements have been altered/removed to encourage a better gender balance within the force, AFAIK height restrictions have also been lowered to some extent also
                                Last edited by Maelstrom; 07-23-2007, 05:34 AM.
                                "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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