Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

You Be The Cop #1

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
    gonzo1510
    Member

  • gonzo1510
    replied
    Originally posted by Special Investigator
    you hear the racking of a shotgun behind you.
    Q. What would/should you do?
    Is that before or after I s**t my pants ?

    Leave a comment:

  • outofplacevikingfan
    Junior Member

  • outofplacevikingfan
    replied
    She pulled the weapon witch constitutes the officer to use deadly force. Number one rule make sure you and every one else makes it home, no matter what. The problem is she already has the drop on you, call for back up before entering house. If he gets the shot gun when he went in the house he is inside you and your partner can take cover any where outside, your not pinned in. But thats ideally and murphys law says things don't go ideally. So she goes down.

    Leave a comment:

  • Special Investigator
    Member

  • Special Investigator
    replied
    Originally posted by Marchetti, David, M
    Are you armed and were you hired to patrol that area?
    Yes you are armed, your a police officer in this scenriao. At the time I was a Milwaukee police officer.

    Leave a comment:

  • Mr. Security
    Senior Member

  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    As I said. There comes a point when you realize that you're not getting out of this alive without taking action. Then its time to try to kill your opponent. You may, indeed, take buckshot to your trunk while trying to do that. You can only hope that you are strong enough and mad enough to kill the enemy and survive till assistance arrives before the enemy kills you.

    If you feel that you can talk your way out of the situation, then its not yet time to force the hand and "survive or die fighting."
    I agree with this and maybe that's what you meant all along. It all comes down to a personal evaluation of the situation. Only the person there can truly sense which way it likely will go.

    Leave a comment:

  • FederalSecurity
    Member

  • FederalSecurity
    replied
    Any Security Officer or Police Officer should have scanned the area for

    cover and concealment by the time the situation had escalated to this. I

    personally would have attempted a "failure drill", meaning two rounds to

    center mass and one round to the head while moving toward cover, or at

    least concealment. If I felt like being a miserable excuse for a decent human

    being, I would have "unknowingly" used the male for cover.

    It might not look good to the authorities afterward, but at least I might be

    alive to hear their criticism!
    FederalSecurity
    Member
    Last edited by FederalSecurity; 11-12-2006, 10:11 AM.

    Leave a comment:

  • N. A. Corbier
    Senior Member

  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Me
    This is not for the weak of heart, nor is this for a time when you think you can make it out alive. If you feel you have no other options, and you're about to eat a slug from that 12 gauge, then this is the time to remember this... You either stand there and die, or you fight and maybe live. Or die. Either way... its past the time to talk and cooperate, its time to act and choose to die fighting.
    As I said. There comes a point when you realize that you're not getting out of this alive without taking action. Then its time to try to kill your opponent. You may, indeed, take buckshot to your trunk while trying to do that. You can only hope that you are strong enough and mad enough to kill the enemy and survive till assistance arrives before the enemy kills you.

    If you feel that you can talk your way out of the situation, then its not yet time to force the hand and "survive or die fighting."

    Leave a comment:

  • Bill Warnock
    Senior Member

  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Bill: After you weighed in, I went back and reread the thread. If Nathan makes the move he described, he WILL die if he miscalculates. He is forcing the situation to a climax. If he complies, he buys precious time to evaluate whether he needs to make his move. I know you are both experienced at handling such matters. Still, a desperate move like that must be a LAST resort. I can imagine the woman telling the court: "I wasn't going to shoot him. He made me do it."
    Nathan:
    Am I that far off the mark?
    Bill

    Leave a comment:

  • Mr. Security
    Senior Member

  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Bill: After you weighed in, I went back and reread the thread. If Nathan makes the move he described, he WILL die if he miscalculates. He is forcing the situation to a climax. If he complies, he buys precious time to evaluate whether he needs to make his move. I know you are both experienced at handling such matters. Still, a desperate move like that must be a LAST resort. I can imagine the woman telling the court: "I wasn't going to shoot him. He made me do it."

    Leave a comment:

  • Bill Warnock
    Senior Member

  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Remember Nathan, her command is to let the guy go OR else. You are assuming that she will use deadly force no matter what. I don't read it that way. If you comply and still sense that she will kill, then I agree, don't just stand there.
    Mr. Security, Nathan was correct in his comments. She has the weapon, she knows or should know the LEO or whomever, will cite her for pointing a weapon and communicating a threat to a LEO. Chances are you cannot negotiate and calmly walk away. You are there to perform your duty. You must isolate and neutralize the situation.
    LEOs are criticized for entering with weapons drawn. You can't draw a weapon when faced with a shotgun. She raises the shotgun you shoot! I know that sounds callous but I'd rather be called callous then die on duty.
    When I was in that line of work, I (we) never entered a threat area with a holstered sidearm.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:

  • Mr. Security
    Senior Member

  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Remember Nathan, her command is to let the guy go OR else. You are assuming that she will use deadly force no matter what. I don't read it that way. If you comply and still sense that she will kill, then I agree, don't just stand there.

    Leave a comment:

  • N. A. Corbier
    Senior Member

  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    This is not for the weak of heart, nor is this for a time when you think you can make it out alive. If you feel you have no other options, and you're about to eat a slug from that 12 gauge, then this is the time to remember this... You either stand there and die, or you fight and maybe live. Or die. Either way... its past the time to talk and cooperate, its time to act and choose to die fighting.

    You can, if you are lucky, defeat a person using a shotgun if you are within the minimum operational distance of the shotgun. What this means is that the person using it is so close that you can get inside the muzzle of the gun before she wants to shoot. The trick, of course, is doing this BEFORE she pulls the trigger. Cause once that happens, no matter how fast you are, you're going to eat buckshot.

    Once you're in, clamp the barrel between your arm and your trunk, with the muzzle BEHIND YOU. You've locked the weapon down. Did I mention this woman was trying to kill you? Go to town with collarbone strikes, head strikes, and anything else you think will make her stop trying to kill you.

    If you are going to die, die fighting.

    Leave a comment:

  • Mr. Security
    Senior Member

  • Mr. Security
    replied
    I would think an academy instructor would fault you for two things:

    - Entering the house before back-up arrived
    - Not maintaining a visual on both parties

    Unfortunately, once she has a SHOTGUN leveled at you, you basically have become a hostage w/ little choice but to comply and use verbal skills to try to diffuse the crisis until you are no longer at gun point.

    Leave a comment:

  • Mall Director
    Member

  • Mall Director
    replied
    True life response..

    This is my actual response of a similiar incident. Though no twhen i was operating in security, or law enforcement.. It was in time of war.

    Middle of the day, hot as you know what, myself and our sqaud were conducting foot patrol through a residential complex in Baghdad. We came under fire from a few male targets, that had immediately turned around and ran inside the complex after engaging us. My "battle buddy", lacking intellegence on a few occassions, became upset and followed the targets into the facility. I followed behind him, until I realized we left our squad outside, still engaging another target. My buddy ran up a set of stairs to follow these individuals. I started to follow, but as the lighting in the building deminished, I stopped and took position from around a corner. I yelled out to his retarded butt, to get his keester back here. He stopped and became upset with me. He wanted to know why I had stopped. I simply put it to him "do you see the others (refering to our sqad)? Dont take another step up there!" He looked at me with alot of frustration, but complied. We backed ourselves out, and waited for the others to catch up. Once every one was together, we went in. It was just shortly later after neutralizing these targets on the third floor, that if he had gone up by himself, I would be left packing his personal effects up to go home with him in his body bag. At first the targets had minimal firepower, but when we stopped the threat (as a team) we found several ordanances and munitions that a sinlge soldier could not have overcome.

    My instict told me that if I followed him up those stairs, and into a long hallway I was not familiar with that had poor visibility, then the outcome would not have been so positive. But instead of just sitting idly by watching my buddy go up alone, and not following, he would have ended up in a bad spot. This is why I called him back and waited. Did we get every one of them, no. But we are all alive, and thats what really matters.

    Never rush into a house or area you are not familiar with. Never trust whats behind you either. If it doesnt wear the same uniform as you, its a danger!

    In your situation, had I been in that spot, I would have called out to my partner to stop. If he refuses and continues in on his own accord, more power to him. Two dead officers wont make a bad situation better, those we cant save everyone. When people run into their own homes, thats not a good sign, and definately an indicator to stay out until fully prepared. They know whats in there, you dont. Though it may drive you insane to wait outside the door, do it anyways. If he gets shot over making such a mistake, then its all on him, you didnt force him to go into a bad situation. We all make our own choices, make sure yours carry you through to another day!

    Leave a comment:

  • bigshotceo
    Member

  • bigshotceo
    replied
    As a security guard or cop, I'd probably just let the guy go and leave. As it is, it would seem like the best way to avoid anyone getting shot. Besides, the police can send over an ERT team or whatever else is necessary.

    Leave a comment:

  • Bill Warnock
    Senior Member

  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    We dealt with domestics in low income a lot.

    First thing was understood that at onset, more units were requested since its in progress. Police, security, don't care who, just send me more people.

    If the guy runs inside his house, I'm not going to chase after him alone. My partner would already be with the woman, both to acertain her injuries and to keep an eye on her.

    Why? Because domestics usually turn bad, like it did in this story. The woman may switch sides. In fact, she probably will switch sides. If he runs, I no longer care about him, because we're doing our contractual duty - protecting the victim from violent attack as an invitee or leasee of the owner's property.

    Now, something that HAS happened is you start to cuff the bad guy, and the wife goes nuts on you. Which is why you treat both of them as you want to be treated, while mentally preparing for them both (or someone else in the area) to kill you.
    Nathan:
    I don't know which one concerned me more, a domestic or a traffic stop in the middle of nowhere. I've been scared out of my wits with both. But more officers have been severly injured in domestics that in traffic stops.
    That is why a battered woman will defend her battering husband or boyfriend is a part of psychology I've never understood regardless of who taught the course.
    In many instances, the police arrest (we did) both parties, have social services take custody of minors and let either the mental health or legal profession handle the rest.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:

Leaderboard

Collapse
Working...
X