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    At the hospital I am at we get alot of people that we trespass constantly. Unfortunatly passdown is not what it should be. I am trying to come up with a better way to pass on to other Officers about who has already been given a Trespass Notice by PD. We have a digital camera and I've been thinking about taking a picture of the individual while we are having PD right the notice. I would then put them on the computer into a database, with name, date of notice, Tresspass Notice number, etc etc.

    Basically I have a couple questions.

    1) For the FL officers (and Nathan who knows more about FL laws then I can hope to) is this legal? Must I ask for consent? I remember working a hotel in Panama City during spring break that did something similar a few years ago.

    2) Any suggestions on a database? Something very low cost, we don't use a computerized IR system and probably never will, TWC is a pain in the tush on that part. I am fairly proficient with Access and know that I can put pictures on there.

    Well I think I've drained my brain for tonight! Thanks guys!

  • #2
    Ahhh, the one area I could be some help on finally!

    Working a Mall, we do take alot of pictures of subjects for the purpose of trespass warning orders, as well as fingerprints.

    In the state of Colorado, as well as so many others, any form of identification collection, that is not "evasive" may be done. Evasive: to take away from another, essentially.

    Photo's and prints are not taken from the subject, they are replicated by image. To keep yourself out of liability, make sure to keep the photos and prints secure and not released to the public. Ohh, for the prints, just like cashing a check, you can collect a right index fingerprint, which is all that is needed.

    We originally started out with photo's, and then after time, peoples appearances will change, so we started right index fingerprinting, with an "inkless" pad. No mess!

    These items can be collected, even from minors, in the fact it is related to legal documents, such as trespass warning orders. You have to make sure that with a minors photo, it does stay for your department and LE purposes only. "Not for public viewing".

    As for a program, we had the same issue..$$$. So, with Microsoft Access, we created a database, that is just awesome. We can look up info by last name, first name, DOB, height, weight, date of contact, reason of contact.. which ever field we choose. Now, we do have to resize all photos and prints, as they are high resolution, and will slow the system down fast once loaded, so by resizing, the bit rate is lower, and the system isnt sluggish.

    Drop me a PM!
    Deputy Sheriff

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    • #3
      +1 to what Mall Director said.

      The whole idea of taking people's pictures has been a bit of a hot topic in this town lately for some unknown reason... The simplest response would be that there is NO expectation of privacy when you're in a public place. You may want to consult your local laws to be absolutely sure, but in most states it's completely legal to take a picture of subjects you're contacting. After all, they're in your house, not theirs.

      As for the database, chalk another one up for Access. The program we use here for our report-writing, logs, FIs, vehicles, etc. is a self-contained database I created in Access. We recently had a training seminar with the local PD, and one of them asked us if we kept photographic records of our trespasses. At the time, we weren't, as we only had an old polaroid and management rarely remembered to get film for us. But shortly after this meeting we approached management about it, and now have a digital camera. It took me a matter of MINUTES to add photo capability to our database, and from that point on we now have digital photos of our trespasses saved for... eh... 'posterity'.
      Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
      Originally posted by ValleyOne
      BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
      Shoulda called in sick.
      Be safe!

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      • #4
        Save money.

        Use a Microsoft Word program. Chances are, you already have it. All you need is to keep a database of names, etc. and keep a hardcopy with official documents locked in a file cabinet. You can do a search with this program too. It's cheap, a word that the client loves to hear.
        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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        • #5
          Ok, first of... Microsoft Office is not cheap. Its 600 dollars. Word is part of MS Office, and is not a good solution for this.

          Microsoft Access is an OK solution, however, I hate access. The BEST solution would be a C# application that references a MSSQL file, but... That's freaking overkill.

          Second, taking pictures of trespassers is not illegal. Recording talking to them 1-on-1 is, but taking pictures of them is not. We did it all the time, and will continue to do so.

          I've heard from a LOT of people that "taking pictures of minors is illegal," but minors have no more expectation of privacy on your private property than adult has. If this was truly illegal, or a tort offense, then we would need to have security cameras, or worse, blinders, that prohibit us from looking at minors when out and about in public.

          A good statement is, "Under my fourth amendment rights, I am recording what my eye can see."
          Some Kind of Commando Leader

          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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          • #6
            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
            Ok, first of... Microsoft Office is not cheap. Its 600 dollars. Word is part of MS Office, and is not a good solution for this.

            Microsoft Access is an OK solution, however, I hate access. The BEST solution would be a C# application that references a MSSQL file, but... That's freaking overkill.

            Second, taking pictures of trespassers is not illegal. Recording talking to them 1-on-1 is, but taking pictures of them is not. We did it all the time, and will continue to do so.

            I've heard from a LOT of people that "taking pictures of minors is illegal," but minors have no more expectation of privacy on your private property than adult has. If this was truly illegal, or a tort offense, then we would need to have security cameras, or worse, blinders, that prohibit us from looking at minors when out and about in public.

            A good statement is, "Under my fourth amendment rights, I am recording what my eye can see."
            That's interesting. I just called Staples and it's $230.00. Moreover, like I also said, he probably has it already anyhow.
            Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
              Ok, first of... Microsoft Office is not cheap. Its 600 dollars. Word is part of MS Office, and is not a good solution for this.
              Microsoft Access is an OK solution, however, I hate access. The BEST solution would be a C# application that references a MSSQL file, but... That's freaking overkill.

              Second, taking pictures of trespassers is not illegal. Recording talking to them 1-on-1 is, but taking pictures of them is not. We did it all the time, and will continue to do so.

              I've heard from a LOT of people that "taking pictures of minors is illegal," but minors have no more expectation of privacy on your private property than adult has. If this was truly illegal, or a tort offense, then we would need to have security cameras, or worse, blinders, that prohibit us from looking at minors when out and about in public.

              A good statement is, "Under my fourth amendment rights, I am recording what my eye can see."
              You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. However, I disagree.
              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mr. Security
                That's interesting. I just called Staples and it's $230.00. Moreover, like I also said, he probably has it already anyhow.
                Which version? Student and Teacher's Edition, Standard, or Professional? S&T is useless, Standard lacks Access so you have no database capabilities, and Professional is Access and Publisher included.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                  Which version? Student and Teacher's Edition, Standard, or Professional? S&T is useless, Standard lacks Access so you have no database capabilities, and Professional is Access and Publisher included.
                  Standard. BTW: Standard includes Excel, which is a database that we used in security to track all visitors, contractors, parking violations, etc. I called back for the Professional price. It's on sale for $400. The associate corrected his price on the Standard. It's $400 at regular price.
                  Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                  • #10
                    Thanks for the comments guys. Our computers have MS office but I will have to have IT come down and upload access, they already told me they could. Nathan, where can I find that C# thingymabob at.

                    Sidenote: On the recording talking to someone, awhile back I posted a website that said in florida you only have to ask for permission if it is a phone convo, it had all the states and I'd like to find it again.

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                    • #11
                      Excel is a spreadsheet program, not a database, folks. The C# thing is a programming language, the IT department would have to write a program in C# using C# Visual Studio or Visual C# Express 2006, and deploy it internally.

                      Alternately, they can write a VBA App in Access, or you can put an Access DB together. It takes about 20 minutes, we use an Access App + ID Card Software to develop our state required company ID cards.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                        Excel is a spreadsheet program, not a database, folks. The C# thing is a programming language, the IT department would have to write a program in C# using C# Visual Studio or Visual C# Express 2006, and deploy it internally.

                        Alternately, they can write a VBA App in Access, or you can put an Access DB together. It takes about 20 minutes, we use an Access App + ID Card Software to develop our state required company ID cards.
                        You're right. What I meant is that you can search Excel w/o having to page down hoping to find your data. For example, let's say that you want to find a license plate. You can enter the plate number and, using the search function, locate every cell that has that plate number in it. It works the same way for names or anything else.

                        All I'm saying is that it works well for his desired purpose. I know because we have already done it.
                        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                          Excel is a spreadsheet program, not a database, folks. The C# thing is a programming language, the IT department would have to write a program in C# using C# Visual Studio or Visual C# Express 2006, and deploy it internally.

                          Alternately, they can write a VBA App in Access, or you can put an Access DB together. It takes about 20 minutes, we use an Access App + ID Card Software to develop our state required company ID cards.
                          Not that Access wouldn't be better, but Excel can also be used effectively as a database. I have done so in the past. You can also develop programs in Excel using VB. My security contract program, AutoRate Pricing Pro is written in VB on an excel plateform and then compiled into a pretty slick setup program (.exe) which products the license and creates a desktop icon, among other things.
                          Richard Dickinson
                          Dickinson Security Management Group, LLC
                          DSMG Provides a Variety of Software Products and Consulting Services to the Contract Security Industry
                          www.hrdickinson.com

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                          • #14
                            The biggest reason i like Access, whih I chatted at N.A. Corbeir about, was the ability to design it myself, for myself, with little computer guru knowledge.

                            I will be so completely honest, I am a tard when it comes to some o fthese programs. I remember back in the day when Fortran and C++ was the thing (Shh, I am know, but I am not that old), but as we picked up the Pro package of MS, we got Word, Publisher, Excell, and Access. After dinking around for a few months of trial and error, creating it myself, with the help of that Help Wizard, then going out on my own, I was able to make a program or "database" that fit my departments needs perfectly. Now, i had a few bugs, but my russian assistant director, who is a complete computer geek, took it, worked on it some more, and got the bugs worked out. Now, I never went to school to learn about Access, psychology was my thing, but even a complete designing challenged tard like myself, figured it out by playing with it.

                            I created tables with very speciic feilds I would use (first name, last name, MI, DOB, address, phone, physical make up, photo, print, and contact history), the after making them, I went to the next step, and created a Form (which is like the asthetic part of the design, which was the display window, and designed it with out logo, and created design text and picture boxes. made a real professional design.. its sexy, i am in love with it), then i created Reports for it (the part that prints out. Less ink use, professional design and image, which PD and courts love), then I worked out the Queery part (putting in task buttons, and programming it to look for specific items in specific fields). I put all my options button in the Form part, nw my staff can look up part of a name, part of a last or first name, IE like: Need to find Smith? type in "SM".. and it pulls up all the last names starting with "SM". Same with dates. Remember that guy we banned back on the 2nd, what was his name? Look of 11-02-2006, and Waalllaa, you have all your contacts for that day.

                            Then I got really crazy! We started out a Vehicle registry. Linked it to our Subjects forms, and now you can pull up a certain license plate, and if they were contacted before, you can see who, and what. The subject forms, I also included cute little boxes for that subjets picture and finger print.. Information is Power!

                            I didnt stop there either.. Now all of our incident reports are done in Access, as well as Property/Evidence logs. That one was a blessing. You could look on a sheet of paper for a certain item, then go into lock up, and match numbers or description, then determine if this was correct. Now, with Access, we attached a picture of each item into the file. No more long trips to lock up to see what it is we "may" be looking for.

                            I wont say its a perfect program, but its alot better then paying someone buckuu's of $$$ to make one for you. And if you ever want to change something or add another field, you dont have to down your system and take it to someone else to do it.. You made it yourself, and can do it yourself. It gives you something else to be proud of as well!
                            Deputy Sheriff

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