What Would You Do? - #2

[ACP01]

Another tactic being taught is move laterally as you draw if possible to put the BGs in line thus you are only dealing with one at a time . (move so the gunman is in front of the knife welder).

This does two things..it puts an obstacle between you and the knife and it also keeps the gunman in view. If you were to move towards the knifer then the gunman could draw and shoot around or thru the knifeman.

Moving straight forward or backwards doesn't take you out of the line of attack as well as lateral movement does.

[Charger]

Another tactic being taught is move laterally as you draw if possible to put the BGs in line thus you are only dealing with one at a time . (move so the gunman is in front of the knife welder).

This does two things..it puts an obstacle between you and the knife and it also keeps the gunman in view. If you were to move towards the knifer then the gunman could draw and shoot around or thru the knifeman.

Moving straight forward or backwards doesn't take you out of the line of attack as well as lateral movement does.

Good point! That drill that I mentioned in the earlier post was taught to us in that way. We were trained not to back straight up, but outward at (approximately) a 45 degree angle... This was also touched on as a key training point when I received my OC Instructor cert... Moving straight backwards isn't going to take you out of harm's way if you're facing someone with a gun, or someone who's already charging at you...

[Mall Director]

As with #1, again, not armed... but..

Again, not armed, but in the event I was placed into the situation, I would assume that due to range, it didnt matter what I did, I will leave their in best case scenerio with injuries. So, that being said, armed subject down first, then knife subject next, if possible. Gunshots do have a tendancy to cause people to "jamm up" or freeze for a second, hopefully giving enough time to re-aquire second target and neutralizing.

[N. A. Corbier]

Another tactic being taught is move laterally as you draw if possible to put the BGs in line thus you are only dealing with one at a time . (move so the gunman is in front of the knife welder).

This does two things..it puts an obstacle between you and the knife and it also keeps the gunman in view. If you were to move towards the knifer then the gunman could draw and shoot around or thru the knifeman.

Moving straight forward or backwards doesn't take you out of the line of attack as well as lateral movement does.

... You know, I thought I mentioned that. Ever notice you fail to mention the simple things? Straight back just increases distance, it doesn't seek cover. Putting yourself between cover and the threats is important, it delays their ability to cut you. And, in this case, shoot you.

Another thing to remember is verbal commands. You're shouting for three reasons:

1. To show the reasonable person that you wished to disengage, but the attacker kept coming, and you were forced to stop his attack.

2. To intimidate and verbally stun the attacker. (It can happen.)

3. To become angry and motivated, which will help you survive the injuries you may receive. Street Survival Seminar right there, folks.

[Mr. Security]

Here is what I was taught.....

It would depend on a number of factors, but generally, you should shoot the guy with the knife first.

Why, you ask? Two reasons....

1. First it takes only 1-1/2 seconds to close a 20 foot gap. Thats faster than most folks can draw, aim and fire a handgun. So unless your prepared, your probably going to get cut.

Multipule knife wounds are more likely to hit a major artery and cause serious injury or death. After all, only 1-in-10 people die from a bullet wound.
2. The second reason is that psychologically, a knife wielding attacker is more blood thirsty and his silent knife makes it more likely that he will be the one who will attack first.


Any comments on my answer?

You’re assuming that the assailant can only squeeze of one round. Logically, more people die from multiple gun shot wounds than knife wounds.

[ACP01]

... You know, I thought I mentioned that. Ever notice you fail to mention the simple things?

Another thing to remember is verbal commands. You're shouting for three reasons:

1. To show the reasonable person that you wished to disengage, but the attacker kept coming, and you were forced to stop his attack.

2. To intimidate and verbally stun the attacker. (It can happen.)

3. To become angry and motivated, which will help you survive the injuries you may receive. Street Survival Seminar right there, folks.

[B]Nathan, I think this is because some things become so ingrained that we just assume they are known and our minds ovwerlook them.[/B]

See, I didn't mention the verbal.

[N. A. Corbier]

Point noted.

[Special Investigator]

You’re assuming that the assailant can only squeeze of one round. Logically, more people die from multiple gun shot wounds than knife wounds.

This is what I was taught in tactical training class's when I was a S.D. We had a demonstration of the same scenario and the attacker with the knife was "quicker" to inflect a wound, thus the "greater" threat.

Sure you don't know if the person with the knife can use it. But it is a deadly weapon that takes no special skill to use it. Maybe this guy is quick on his feet and can sprint like a rabbit. That 1-1/2 seconds is then reduced to lets say.......one second.

Still gonna shoot the guy with a gun first?

[Mr. Security]

This is what I was taught in tactical training class's when I was a S.D. We had a demonstration of the same scenario and the attacker with the knife was "quicker" to inflect a wound, thus the "greater" threat.

Sure you don't know if the person with the knife can use it. But it is a deadly weapon that takes no special skill to use it. Maybe this guy is quick on his feet and can sprint like a rabbit. That 1-1/2 seconds is then reduced to lets say.......one second.

Still gonna shoot the guy with a gun first?

No. I'm strictly unarmed. I will, however, try not to end up in that situation. If I do, I WILL RUN for cover and hope the guy can't shoot straight. If that doesn't work, you can post a remembrance for me on here.

[lzrman]

First one guy has a gun, and the other guy has a knife.

One can kill you from what ever location you are in,
the other can kill you at close range.

Do you wanna die up close or running?


If you were to choose, you would first take out the individual with the gun, by rushing him and getting the gun, that would be running away from the guy w/ the knife.

So now you have the gun, and now you have more power then the knifer :K

I win!

[Mr. Security]

First one guy has a gun, and the other guy has a knife.

One can kill you from what ever location you are in,
the other can kill you at close range.

Do you wanna die up close or running?


If you were to choose, you would first take out the individual with the gun, by rushing him and getting the gun, that would be running away from the guy w/ the knife.

So now you have the gun, and now you have more power then the knifer :K

I win!

Yeah right. We'll inscribe that on your tombstone.

[N. A. Corbier]

First one guy has a gun, and the other guy has a knife.

One can kill you from what ever location you are in,
the other can kill you at close range.

Do you wanna die up close or running?


If you were to choose, you would first take out the individual with the gun, by rushing him and getting the gun, that would be running away from the guy w/ the knife.

So now you have the gun, and now you have more power then the knifer :K

I win!

Have you been watching those Chinese Gun Disarm tapes or something?

[Bill Warnock]

Izrman:
Sorry to say young man, you lose. You have mistaken this scenario for a wild west setting.
When in doubt, seek cover, do not confuse concealment for cover. If I know you are hiding behind a bush, I shoot into the bush. Cover offers you reasonable safety.
Remember the 21-foot rule; forget it at your peril. Also remember you have committed a deadly sin against the second commandment of law enforcement, tombstone courage.
Mr. Security was correct in stating that epitaph will be the inscription in your memory.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[Special Investigator]

Something to think about......

If you seriously believe you can draw your firearm and fire accurate rounds to stop a suspect who is already reaching for a knife or a firearm from a common interview distance, you need to watch 'Surviving Edged Weapons' by Calibre Press, Inc. In that video, a "suspect" was able close a distance of 21 feet before the officer was able to draw and fire two accurate rounds. Good luck trying to pull that off from a distance of three to five feet!

[Mall Director]

Very true! We went through training on Edged Weapons with our local PD, and it really opened alot of eyes. That is why I pretty much resonded originally with "I would be lucky to walk away alive in the first place, and wouldnt expect to go unharmed". We found out we have a few "known" knife fighting experts in our community, and the distance they can cover in the amount of time is amazing. Knowing all of this, keeping distance is about the best possible thing to do, still doesnt mean a person would remain safe, but there isnt much else you can expect to come of the whole mess!