What Would You Do? #1

[Special Investigator]

What Would You Do? #1

OK, your having lunch in a crowded McDonalds restaurant. Your sitting in the middle of the main dining area across from the cashier/order counter.

As your eating, talking to those at your table you notice 2 young thugs walking up to the cashier. It turns out to be an armed robbery. Something goes wrong and one of the gunman starts shooting. He shoots and kills one of the cashiers and then wounds 2 customers at the counter ordering their food.

You are carrying a weapon. Your in uniform or carrying concealed. Your decission.


For discussion: What would you have done?

[Arff312]

If in uniform ad on duty. I would probably take a position of cover, Radio it in , and observe the situation. If they have already shoot someone i would draw my weapon order them to stop and drop the weapons. If they contiune to fire shoots i would return fire to protect life. After the situation was defused i would place both suspects in handcuffs and get help for the wounded. If i did nothing i am liable to become a target when they see a uniformed officer sitting there.

[Bill Warnock]

If in uniform ad on duty. I would probably take a position of cover, Radio it in , and observe the situation. If they have already shoot someone i would draw my weapon order them to stop and drop the weapons. If they contiune to fire shoots i would return fire to protect life. After the situation was defused i would place both suspects in handcuffs and get help for the wounded. If i did nothing i am liable to become a target when they see a uniformed officer sitting there.

Do nothing to exacerbate the situation. Do not turn the place into a slaughterhouse. Use common sense and rely on your training.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[EMTGuard]

In uniform, I work unarmed. I'd have to hope I was carrying concealed as I do when off work. Usually I conceal carry when between work and home in uniform.
If I'm armed I'll find a place to stay low and be a reliable witness when the cops finally show up. My weapon is for self defense and I'm not about to go wading into a shooting in progress. If the hoodlums turn their sites on me I have no problem opening fire before they can get a bead on me. I rarly carry anything bigger than a .380cal pistol and usually only have 7 to 14 rounds (if I carry a spare mag) so I'm not equipted for street combat. It's just there to give me a chance to get away.

[ACP01]

Do nothing to exacerbate the situation. Do not turn the place into a slaughterhouse. Use common sense and rely on your training.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

A very good answer as usual.

If THEY are turning it into a slaughter house then sooner or later they will be close to you and you will have to defend yourself.

But what if they are shooting others and you have a clear shot at one of the @ssholes? Would you take it? I think I would if for no other reason than the other toad might leave or get into your fire zones.

[Lawson]

Im shooting back.

[Charger]

First step would be to radio it in and get some cover rolling pronto.
Whether I'd draw & start ordering/shooting would depend on the other citizens around me. If I'm in the middle of the restaurant, then more-than-likely there's other customers sitting behind me. If I open fire and the suspects shoot back, I'd feel like one helluva dumba$$ if the customers behind me got hit. Moral of the story, always be aware of your surroundings.

On a side note: NEVER sit in the middle of the room. Back should be against a wall, so you can see everything that's going on.

[HotelSecurity]

I'm neve going to be in that situation. 30 years working without a gun & even if I could get one I don't think I would.

[Mr. Security]

First step would be to radio it in and get some cover rolling pronto.
Whether I'd draw & start ordering/shooting would depend on the other citizens around me. If I'm in the middle of the restaurant, then more-than-likely there's other customers sitting behind me. If I open fire and the suspects shoot back, I'd feel like one helluva dumba$$ if the customers behind me got hit. Moral of the story, always be aware of your surroundings.

On a side note: NEVER sit in the middle of the room. Back should be against a wall, so you can see everything that's going on.

Agreed. Also, sit next to an exit and stay away from places at closing time.

[N. A. Corbier]

In Wisconsin, you won't be in that situation as a security person. Wisconsin law prohibits carrying in places that are not your duty assignment, and only a sworn law enforcement officer may carry concealed.

[Arff312]

Do nothing to exacerbate the situation. Do not turn the place into a slaughterhouse. Use common sense and rely on your training.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

This comes down to a moral situation and trainign decision. I have 3 years military experience and counting , 2 Years law enforcement expirence and and 2 years security. I may not be the most experienced person but i feel that my training enables me to help in the situation. Also if they already showed they are willing to use leathal force then i must be ready to use it because i could definetly be next. And hell yea i can prove i feared for my life as they already shot 2 people out of uniform. Morally i cant sit there and do nothing in this situation. Thats just my 2 sense,

[Charger]

This comes down to a moral situation and trainign decision. I have 3 years military experience and counting , 2 Years law enforcement expirence and and 2 years security. I may not be the most experienced person but i feel that my training enables me to help in the situation. Also if they already showed they are willing to use leathal force then i must be ready to use it because i could definetly be next. And hell yea i can prove i feared for my life as they already shot 2 people out of uniform. Morally i cant sit there and do nothing in this situation. Thats just my 2 sense,

Morally, and personally, I would tend to agree. But as I said in my earlier post, specific circumstances (in this case bystanders behind me) might sway me to keep my gun in it's holster. Am I confident that I could put a couple rounds into each of them? Certainly. Am I absolutely positive that neither of them could get a retaliatory shot off in my direction and kill another customer? Absolutely not. IF I made the decision to engage in a situation like this, I wouldn't do so until I could move to an unoccupied or otherwise 'less-dangerous-to-others' area.

[Mall Director]

I am not armed.. but..

As I said, not armed, but in the event I were, previous military training is to report in fire on position, classify my target, and nuetralize the threat.

[Andy Taylor]

You're not in the military anymore, you are a civilian. Military training is mostly useless in the civilian world as it does not apply. Your post is a case in point.

I believe his comment was tongue-in-cheek.

[Bill Warnock]

I believe his comment was tongue-in-cheek.

Andy:
I believe not. In military training, mission accomplishment is paramount and you are governed by the principles of "calculated risk." Collateral damage is a given, part of doing business. In the military, "Rules of Engagement" are emphasized. That wording has crept into civilian police terminology which has been proven to be bad for all concerned.
In civilian law enforcement, the risk to innocent people is paramount.
As former service personnel, especially in combat arms, transition into civilian law enforcement, there is a great deal of "retraining" required.
The military instills discipline and chain of command, do what you are told when you are told are golden words. They apply in civilian law enforcement as well.
The old answer question of military recruits is, "What do you do if you are surrounded by the enemy?" The recruit responds, "Kill 'em sir." This does not apply in civilian circles. The operative word is "civilian."
Enjoy the day,
Bill