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  • #16
    To me, "spy like" is doing things like supervisors jumping fences, staking out employees using blacked out cars, things that make them look like a threat.

    We had a supervisor jump the fence on one of my properties. He was not wearing his uniform. The officer on duty was new and did not know who the man was. He also did not believe the man was a superivsor as the supervisor had jumped the fence instead of coming up to the gatehouse, to see "if the guard knew he was there." Considering that we did not stop pedestrian traffic (the supervisor was new to the district), nor did we stop vehicle traffic, and never left the gate house... It really didn't matter if anyone knew he was there or not.

    We were normally prohibited from calling the police for intruders (it may upset a resident if they didn't bother to stop at the gate and we called the police), but the guard called because this man was claiming to be a supervisor and was angry at him.

    It was not good times for that supervisor.

    An unscheduled (they schedule these things?) post inspection is just that, a post inspection. Its when the supervisory staff starts acting less like uniformed supervisors and more like private investigators that the problem starts. Especially as they may be considered intruders and dealt with as such.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #17
      Originally posted by mike booth
      Again, I appologize if I'm out of line here. I come from a "gray wall" background. We expect good supervisiors and good officers. We don't tolerate snitches or supervisors who jerk us around with trumped up charges.
      Yeah, I agree with you 100%. I know who snitched me it was this older security officer a fat woman named paula. We were friends at first, there was even an occasion when I gave her a dozen boxed white wines for free. Then I showed up late a few times and she complained about it. I can understand why she was disgruntled about this, but she should have come to me directly and told me, instead of snitching.

      I found out it was her because two other SOs told me she told them she was going to snitch me. I condemned her for snitching on a fellow officer.

      If you did this in the LE profession you would be DONE. If you did this in prison they would cut your throat. We need to weed out these snitches...wherever they may be in the security profession and give them the HELL that they deserve.

      Any creative ideas?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by The_Mayor
        Any creative ideas?
        Here's a VERY creative idea... Don't be late to work in the first place.
        "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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        • #19
          Originally posted by mike booth
          Sorry, I'm out of my lane. I've only been in the private sector for a few years. My "security" background is DOC. I was being sarcastic. In my experience, good supervisors know how to follow a paper trail. The log book, the inventory, the reports tell you who is working and who isn't, if you take the time to read them and stop by the post once in a while. Even better if you give a break here and there and actually work the post.

          Again, and this is only my experience, I'm learning private sector security is a different animal, the easiest way to supervise is to cultivate a few "special" employees who will run back and tell tales on the rest of the staff. Now before everyone goes off on that whole dynamic, there is one thing I have noticed corrections does have in common with security. The tattletales don't care if the stories they are carrying are true, they don't care if the red flags they are throwing up are legitimate and the supervisors who listen don't care either. It is a win/win situation. Bosses who listen to snitches get to look like they are in charge. Snitches get to cherry pick their jobs and slack off.

          Again, I appologize if I'm out of line here. I come from a "gray wall" background. We expect good supervisiors and good officers. We don't tolerate snitches or supervisors who jerk us around with trumped up charges.
          Thanks for the explanation.
          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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          • #20
            Mayor

            Originally posted by The_Mayor
            Yeah, I agree with you 100%. I know who snitched me it was this older security officer a fat woman named paula. We were friends at first, there was even an occasion when I gave her a dozen boxed white wines for free. Then I showed up late a few times and she complained about it. I can understand why she was disgruntled about this, but she should have come to me directly and told me, instead of snitching.

            I found out it was her because two other SOs told me she told them she was going to snitch me. I condemned her for snitching on a fellow officer.

            If you did this in the LE profession you would be DONE. If you did this in prison they would cut your throat. We need to weed out these snitches...wherever they may be in the security profession and give them the HELL that they deserve.

            Any creative ideas?
            I agree about your point on snitches...to a certain point. Being late a couple of times is something that could and should be handled between the officers. A more serious violation could test your commitment to integrity, honesty, and your position of trust.

            For example, what if you knew that a fellow officer was stealing, abusing drugs/alcohol, or carrying a firearm w/o permission? When that happens, a security officer has violated the position he/she is entrusted with. Bringing the matter to the attention of your supervisor isn't snitching, it's doing what's right.
            Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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            • #21
              I've worked for a Director who was paranoid about lossing his job. This made mine extremely difficult because everytime I would do something "extra" he would think I was trying to get his job. He also cultivated snitches & used them to try & get rid of me & others that took our jobs seriously.. In the end both snitches were gotten rid of because they could no longer work. In this business you have to be firm but friendly. If not the rest of the hotel staff will refuse to give you the information required to do your job. The Director DIED!
              Last edited by HotelSecurity; 10-18-2006, 05:54 PM.
              I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
              Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by HotelSecurity
                I've worked for a Director who was paranoid about lossing his job. This made mine extremely difficult because everytime I would do something "extra" he would think I was trying to get his job. He also cultivated snitches & used them to try & get rid of me. In the end both snitches were gotten rid of & the Director DIED!
                Hmm... so basically... what you're saying is... we shouldnt cross you right?
                "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                "The Curve" 1998

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by HotelSecurity
                  I've worked for a Director who was paranoid about lossing his job. This made mine extremely difficult because everytime I would do something "extra" he would think I was trying to get his job. He also cultivated snitches & used them to try & get rid of me & others that took our jobs seriously.. In the end both snitches were gotten rid of because they could no longer work. In this business you have to be firm but friendly. If not the rest of the hotel staff will refuse to give you the information required to do your job. The Director DIED!
                  And where were you when that happened? Is there anyone that can confirm your alibi?
                  Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mr. Security
                    I agree about your point on snitches...to a certain point. Being late a couple of times is something that could and should be handled between the officers. A more serious violation could test your commitment to integrity, honesty, and your position of trust.

                    For example, what if you knew that a fellow officer was stealing, abusing drugs/alcohol, or carrying a firearm w/o permission? When that happens, a security officer has violated the position he/she is entrusted with. Bringing the matter to the attention of your supervisor isn't snitching, it's doing what's right.
                    Good point, but "know" is the key word. How do I know an officer is stealing, abusing drugs/alchohol or carrying a firearm? Do I have first hand knowledge, have I seen it for myself? Is my knowledge second hand? Is it hearsay or suspicion? If it is second hand, it isn't my place to turn the officer in. If it is hearsay it isn't my place and why am I privy to hearsay or second hand testimony that management doesn't have? If management is doing their job, they will know.

                    On a side note, there are ways to give management a heads up in responsible, non snitch ways, but the ball is back in their court. Remember, if you will rat out a fellow officer, you will rat out a supervisor. As for catching an officer in violation, any violation, that is a whole different problem.

                    If you catch an officer in a violation and you don't report it, sooner or later management will find out and they will probably find out you knew about it too. But you don't want to be an officer no one trusts, peers or supervisors alike. So if you catch an officer doing something minor, call them on it and tell them you don't want to see it or be a party to it, if it happens again you will report them. Make them responsible for their behavior. It won't make you popular, but it won't make you enemies.

                    If you catch someone doing something serious, tell them you can't overlook it, it isn't worth your job and you won't be a party to it. Then give them a chance to report themselves. This is for an infraction that will result in disciplinary action but might not get the employee fired, particularly if they come clean. Advise them you will report them if they don't report themselves and you will be talking to the supervisor, regardless. Surprisingly, I've never had this one come back to bite me. The few times I've done it, the officer affected always took it well, almost with relief.

                    Now seriously criminal or stupid stuff, all bets are off, some things are so wrong you have to say so right then and there. Again, this is just from my DOC experience, but surprisingly, the same standards seem to work pretty well in the private sector too, particularly with ex cops and military.
                    Booth

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                    • #25
                      In rare cases,and I do mean rare should you be late.
                      Like many of us here at this site I live in the snow belt
                      Boston is pounded with an occasional two feet of snow.
                      I know that and try to prepare myself.

                      I have to be at work at 0700 hours
                      I am up at 0300 shovling my driveway
                      What could be a normall 45 minutes to work,
                      could be a two hour drive.

                      And like the Bay Area, traffic in and around Boston
                      is a nightmare. I know I have to be in Cambridge
                      just outside of Boston, I leave my home at least
                      two hours early

                      Maybe she had good reason to snitch
                      Were you relieving her?
                      Why were you late?
                      Was the commuter bus a tad late?
                      Take an earlier bus !

                      Also Mr. Mayor be carefull in this poltically correct world we live in calling someone fat
                      In this day and age calling someone fat could land you in
                      hot water. You could have said someone I worked with in the past Also be carefull
                      using someone' s name on this web site, or any web site
                      I am far from being an expert, but what if Paula's co-workers
                      knew you were making these accuastions about her.
                      You might find youself in a heap of trouble
                      Last edited by copelandamuffy; 10-18-2006, 09:52 PM.
                      http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/ Greatest Comedy team ever!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by BHR Lawson
                        Hmm... so basically... what you're saying is... we shouldnt cross you right?
                        My current boss & I killed him He had tried to force my boss out too. (he was just an Officer at the time). In the end my current boss became Director of Security for our head office company. The old man was ordered to work under him. He called in sick the next day & died a month later!
                        I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                        Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by HotelSecurity
                          My current boss & I killed him He had tried to force my boss out too. (he was just an Officer at the time). In the end my current boss became Director of Security for our head office company. The old man was ordered to work under him. He called in sick the next day & died a month later!
                          Wait, wait. We haven't read you your rights yet! Oh, I forgot, you're in Canada.
                          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                          • #28
                            As a sergeant for my company, I also came up through the ranks (often times a business manager with little or no security experience will be brought on as a Lt. or Capt., so they don't understand the idea of pulling a double on a dead site and not falling asleep). I am somewhat empathetic to the officers under my command, and even when there is an issue (aside from an officer acting like a punk in the skateboard video that has been circulating the net), I counsel the ones that are actually worth something to make them more aware of what the issue is, and to assist in fixing it. In the State of Utah, however, the industry is corrupt and twisted, not only with companies stabbing each other in the back, but also with snakes in companies that completely tear the company the snake works for apart (one particular officer I know went from being a friend to an enemy based on his actions, playing both sides of the stick, so to say). Everyone in different companies have alliances to different people, and the majority of the "veteran" officers know each other, no matter what company they are currently with. Sometimes, those alliances are relied on and played to a particular officer's advantage or disadvantage, and everyone sabotages and betrays each other (starting out as a friend, then ratting on them when the heat is on; owners threatening to fire someone on insufficient grounds, such as an officer I know who didn't get paid, informed the labor commission, then lost his job because of it, etc). On top of that, we have DOPL who regulate the state contract security industry (they think they regulate everything, including inhouse proprietary officers, which is actually my main job; my sup. contract position is only part time), and the members of the state DOPL board own their own security companies. Conflict of interest, anyone?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Professional Rent-a-Cop
                              As a sergeant for my company, I also came up through the ranks (often times a business manager with little or no security experience will be brought on as a Lt. or Capt., so they don't understand the idea of pulling a double on a dead site and not falling asleep). I am somewhat empathetic to the officers under my command, and even when there is an issue (aside from an officer acting like a punk in the skateboard video that has been circulating the net), I counsel the ones that are actually worth something to make them more aware of what the issue is, and to assist in fixing it. In the State of Utah, however, the industry is corrupt and twisted, not only with companies stabbing each other in the back, but also with snakes in companies that completely tear the company the snake works for apart (one particular officer I know went from being a friend to an enemy based on his actions, playing both sides of the stick, so to say). Everyone in different companies have alliances to different people, and the majority of the "veteran" officers know each other, no matter what company they are currently with. Sometimes, those alliances are relied on and played to a particular officer's advantage or disadvantage, and everyone sabotages and betrays each other (starting out as a friend, then ratting on them when the heat is on; owners threatening to fire someone on insufficient grounds, such as an officer I know who didn't get paid, informed the labor commission, then lost his job because of it, etc). On top of that, we have DOPL who regulate the state contract security industry (they think they regulate everything, including inhouse proprietary officers, which is actually my main job; my sup. contract position is only part time), and the members of the state DOPL board own their own security companies. Conflict of interest, anyone?
                              WOW

                              So if I move to Utah and start a security company called Byzantine Protective Services I should feel right at home huh? LOL.
                              ~Black Caesar~
                              Corbier's Commandos

                              " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

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                              • #30
                                Hey

                                Most times I know my officers are not performing their duties simply from word of mouth, which I do not act on immediately cause some employee hear could be pissed about getting a parking violation or not being able to do as he/she pleases and try to nail an officer with a rumor factory. However, have to break apart the rumor. first I start with the paper trail...matching incident reports and daily logs with protrac logs...checking parking viloation logs, entry forms etc...to see if any documents by that officer is inacurate or doesn't add up. then after gaining any of that info I will talk with officer one on one and try to figure out what or where the problem is. Usualluy in these one on ones you tell if someone is straight up lieing to you or not. If I feel that he/she is lieing then I will rotate my schedule to work that shift and supervise. A lot of times guests here will let it slip...well so and s/o lets us do that all the time. Or no one has ever verified our identities before they just let us in the unit. Want to be tactful and not demean your people. Give them the benifit of the doubt first and try talking to them as to outright jumping their case.

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