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  • #61
    CAUTION: Most manufacturers claim their aerosol projectors are nonflammable, and some may even provide independent laboratory testing to serve as further evidence. Be advised that the EPA Flame Extension Test measures flammability by firing the aerosol projector through a flame. Unfortunately, these results are not relevant for agencies using Electronic Immobilization Devices. NONFLAMMABLE DOES NOT EQUAL EID COMPATIBILITY!

    The use of EID brings to light a new set of circumstances. Unlike the Flame Extension Test, with EID the concern relates to a spark coming into contact with the liquid from the aerosol projector which has already reached the skin and clothing of the subject. If the spark from an EID reaches the area covered by the flammable aerosol projector, injuries will occur. The only way to prevent this problem from occurring is via usage of a water base aerosol projector such as those available in the SABRE H2O Series.

    [size=3][color=#ff0000][b]Agencies should not assume that a defense spray is EID Compatible because a manufacturer or an independent laboratory claims that it is nonflammable. Instead, they should be absolutely certain of a product
    "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

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    • #62
      Here's my issue with this... Something else I learned in my OC Instructor class is the differences between water and alcohol based sprays... Sure, the alcohol-based ones might carry a SLIGHT (and I stress that word) risk of flaring up if a spark is introduced... But the alcohol-based sprays are also MUCH more effective than the water-based, because the alcohol causes skin pores to OPEN, rather than closing like the water does. Because of this, water-based OC doesn't have nearly the same effects on a subject as the alcohol-based. It all comes down to making sure everyone on scene knows what's going on. If you have to OC someone, make sure to let other Officers (or PD) know so that they're cautions about using a taser if necessary. I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it. I stand behind my Punch II... ALCOHOL based.
      Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
      Originally posted by ValleyOne
      BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
      Shoulda called in sick.
      Be safe!

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      • #63
        Problem is, we don't have the luxury of knowing that the local police will not torch the suspect with their taser. The "I'm in charge, you don't tell me how to arrest my suspect" mentality comes to mind immediately.

        After, of course, the suspect is torched, the officer will start up with, "That guard sprayed him, and didn't tell me it was alcohol based. Stupid guard probably didn't know anything about it. It wasn't my fault!"
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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        • #64
          I think I've talked previously in another thread about the PD Sgt. who trained me on OC, and his experience/research on the subject... So I won't get into it again.. But that department carries the alky-based Punch, and stands by it like I do. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a blind follower, but with the research and experience he has on the matter, I do stand by his recommendations.
          Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
          Originally posted by ValleyOne
          BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
          Shoulda called in sick.
          Be safe!

          Comment


          • #65
            good point nathan.
            "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

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            • #66
              FOX is a good brand. A 2% Oleoresin Capsicum (OC) formula, rated at a true 5.3 million Scoville Heat Unit (SHU)
              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Mr. Security
                FOX is a good brand. A 2% Oleoresin Capsicum (OC) formula, rated at a true 5.3 million Scoville Heat Unit (SHU)
                Only 2% with 5.3 SHU? Now THAT I would consider... IF it's alky-based.
                Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
                Originally posted by ValleyOne
                BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
                Shoulda called in sick.
                Be safe!

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Bridgegate
                  Only 2% with 5.3 SHU? Now THAT I would consider... IF it's alky-based.
                  I don't think it is.
                  Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Bridgegate
                    I think I've talked previously in another thread about the PD Sgt. who trained me on OC, and his experience/research on the subject... So I won't get into it again.. But that department carries the alky-based Punch, and stands by it like I do. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a blind follower, but with the research and experience he has on the matter, I do stand by his recommendations.
                    I'm not saying Punch or Punch +P is bad. I'm saying that I don't trust my local police department enough (They've already torched a guy) to refrain from busting out their tasers even AFTER a guy has been hit with alcohol and freon based OC.

                    Then again, my local agency has had some hard problems these past two years. A DT instructor falsifying reports. Multiple officer involved shootings. Officers punched a guy in the face repeatedly and called it a "control hold." Officers deploying OC and Taser simultaniously, against agency policy.

                    Small town, lots of former marines with nothing better to do locally, that sort of thing.
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                    • #70
                      has anybody had any oc depolyments or almost deployments recently?
                      "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by bigdog
                        has anybody had any oc depolyments or almost deployments recently?
                        Yeah, I have had a few.
                        I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                        -Lieutenant Commander Data
                        sigpic

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                        • #72
                          i meant anyone have any and want to share
                          "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by bigdog
                            i meant anyone have any and want to share
                            That's the end result of my most recent... FYI: for those of you that saw my "froggy" video... that's him.
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by davis002; 05-18-2006, 03:27 AM.
                            "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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